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obadonke

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1647 posts
Joined 03/2009

http://membervideos.deucescracked.com/obadonke/8942/101125_obaplays51.mp4

posting this at the request of LiquidQuik who set me a little challenge.

I've included the first and last 20 minutes of a session of LQs choosing.
figured it would be a little different to keep the webcam in there. you get to see me fidget and also how well/badly I take getting to the river with the worst hand...

Posted over 2 years ago

obadonke

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1647 posts
Joined 03/2009

from LC/NC thread (Liquid Quick post):
http://www.deucescracked.com/forums/5-Beginner-Limit-Hold-em/topics/269911-Remember-Remember-the-NL-/posts/2396591-a-couple-notes-on-the-vid

a couple notes on the video so far... when you are two tabling, you made a commentt about how you think you should be paying more attention.. you're right. if you have 2 tables up, your full time job is to be taking notes. 4 handed a guy 3bet you with K9s. you need to note that because that is going to change your capping range vs him, espeically in a 3 handed pot like that one was.

also, sometimes villains have AA. oh well. the first hand against him was standard.fine. the second one 3 ways in a capped pot when he fires twice, i think about folding KK. like, the parlay is pretty big that noone else has an ace there... you're hoping they have KQ and JJ?

ahh, so many missed notes! everyshowdown needs a note unless its super standard.

also... your colouring scheme seems off to me. someone who has a vpip of under 20 is Not a Lag Tag. they are Very taggy, especially in a 4 or 5 handed game (do you filter stats for handedness?.. i do mine 5-6 handed, 4 handed, 3 handed, hu)

26min in. sometimes you lose hands. its not 'a waste of money' thinking that way is so blah. he lrr AA. fwiw i probably fold river... but i also think about capping pre. its a weird spot because he limped behind someone
29 min noone has AA or KK. seriously. you have the nuts here and HAVE to raise the turn. you also have to have the attitude that you have the nuts here because its very unlikely that somoene is playing AA or KK this way preflop and on the flop. its also unlikely that somoene has 2 pair here
you say his play was weird. how should he have played it? preflop, flop, turn etc

watch yourself speak about poker and compare it to how the coaches do, or even other players making member videos. try to conduct yourself in speaking about poker the same way that players you aspire to be like do.

Posted over 2 years ago

obadonke

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1647 posts
Joined 03/2009

thanks LQ.

LAG/TAG orange colour code: just means someone with LAG or TAG stats that are reasonably standard. It's an indication that they may have an idea about the game and my edge is therefore reduced.

There are enough players with stats outside of this orange zone at .5/1 that I can avoid playing too many hands with knowledgable LAGs or TAGs and/or putting myself in games with too many of them.

commentary: there was a time when I couldn't express any of my thoughts while I was playing. believe it or not, what you see here is progress.

attitude:again, I'm pleased with my progress given that only a few weeks ago I would have been on mega-tilt after losing to AA back-to-back. when I say a play is expensive, it's because in my mind I should have folded earlier in the hand but decided to continue (a.k.a. gamble). Because that decision point isn't reflected in the commentary I understand your concern.

filter by handedness: not sure I do with PT3- might not have set it up. With HEM on PC I think I differentiate between 4+ and 1-3 handed.

I'll review the rest when I get a chance.

Posted over 2 years ago

obadonke

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1647 posts
Joined 03/2009

how i speak: reviewing the vid it looks like I was pretty tired so my observation/commentary were worse than normal.

this is partly why I didn't take many notes - needed to concentrate very hard on the game - but... more in note taking in a minute.

26 min in (KQo in SB) I totally agree that calling the hand "a waste of money" was going too far!

Somehow I'd convinced myself by the river that I could have folded this pre but reviewing now I think the river call was the only questionable part my play.

29 min AKs on the button

29 min noone has AA or KK. seriously. you have the nuts here and HAVE to raise the turn.


This shows how bad I am at remembering the action and putting things together.
SB cold-called pre. The donk on the turn from a 27/12/0.8 was just odd to me.

On reflection then, I suppose SB's donk says "I don't want you to take a free card" ?

note taking:I only take notes about play that seems odd to me and/or that I know how to use.

I prefer to devote attention to what's going on than taking a physical note as I can review the session later to take additional notes.

So far I haven't found notes very useful at .5/1 where the player pool is big.

aspiring:

watch yourself speak about poker and compare it to how the coaches do, or even other players making member videos. try to conduct yourself in speaking about poker the same way that players you aspire to be like do.


It sounds like you got a bit frustrated with me - maybe I'm not taking it seriously enough for you eh? I agree I could try harder.

Posted over 2 years ago

DrGrip

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461 posts
Joined 10/2009

Hey Oba, just got a chance to review this vid...so here's my take on things.

General Observation: You often hesitate to open your somewhat marginal hands (you did this with J9o in the CO and a few other hands I believe) and insta-raise the more standard hands. I think we discussed this after one of the home games. I suggest that you mentally count to 3 (or doing something similar) before taking an action with any hand - or find some way to reduce the thinking you have to do before opening your more marginal holdings.

Another general observation: You seem somewhat apathetic about note taking. I know it seems like you don't see the same players often enough at the micros to be overly concerned with it...but remember, you can still put together a pretty good picture of how a person plays and us his tendencies against him in this session. Also, some of the players that were at your tables actually are regs for that stake level (I should know after about 70k hands there, I saw 4 or 5 names that I immediately recognized). Some of those regs have pretty significant leaks you can pick up on with good note taking...I know of one that always defends the BB HU that tends to donk draws, xr air, and xc strong hands on the flop (he rarely, if ever deviates from this strategy) so he is essentially playing with his hand face up against me in a HU pot...but I never would have picked up on those tendencies without taking notes.

OK...on to the hands!

:53
KDiamondTDiamond in the BB - BTN opens, you cc
Flop: 9Heart7Diamond4Spade - you x, BTN xb
Turn: JClub - you x, BTN xb again
River: KSpade - you bet, BTN folds

I would probably lean towards 3 betting this hand pre (though I would still call with it sometimes), but I think that this is a stylistic thing. I assume you were planning to peel the flop with your overcards and BD draws. Also, I would be wary of calling this guy down light later on if he continues to fire postflop since he checked back the flop and turn when he had initiative (please take a note on that sort of tendency, it could save you some bets later in the session). I'd also be more likely to lead out turns or rivers with hands that can't sustain a SD if he does this a couple more times.

3:06
9Heart6Club in the BB
I think I defend again here - this villain is now 2/2 attempting to steal OTB + we have already seen that he may have the tendency to xb without improvement, which should make our hand fairly easy to play against him whether we improve or not.

3:20
ASpade2Heart in SB - BTN (64/5/.9) OL - I kind of want to attempt to reverse ISO with the seemingly foldy BB (I assume FtS - folds to steal) and a L/P limper OTB. If the BB was more cold cally I would be more hesitant to make that raise though.
Actually, the BB in this hand is also in my DB and his Fold BB to Steal stat is much lower in mine. Do you have SB and BB fold to steal merged in your HUD? I'm much closer to your number if I combine the stats I have for both blinds.

6:49
QDiamondJClub in BB - SB completes BvB
You sound as if you aren't sure whether or not you want to raise here - please do (at least most of the time) when the SB just completes.
Flop: AClub9Heart9Spade - SB xc your cbet
Turn: JHeart - Here you say "he's probably got an ace". I think you're underestimating a passive seeming player's flop xc range. That being said, I don't mind the turn xb and river call...but probably for different reasons than why you made the play:
1) It keeps us from owning ourselves when he has an A or 9 (which is why I assume you made the play here).
2) It keeps us from getting bluff xr off the best hand if villain turns out to be the type that goes aggro with picked up draws.
3) It could induce him to bluff the river sometimes.
4) He could decide to make a thin/bad value bet on the river with a hand like 77.

General observation: Note how villain played his hand to the river - information like that could be useful later, especially in conjunction with other observations (here we don't know if he whiffed on a planned xr with TP/GK on a later street or if he planned to just xc down because of how the hand played out).

9:40
TSpade8Spade in the CO - you open and both blinds call (note to take: sb cc pre and xf on a ragged flop).
Flop: 7Heart5Diamond3Heart - you cbet and both blinds fold
I think your cbet is fairly close against 2 cold callers but I'm a bit conflicted because it also feels completely mandatory when you only have T high.
What's your plan for the turn if called by sb (what cards are you betting, what cards are you xing back?)?
Same question if called by BB?
What if you're called in both spots?

11:41
KSpade5Spade OTB - You open and BB CC
Flop: 9Club6Club3Diamond - BB xc your cbet
Turn: 8Spade - BB x, you xb
I think xing back the turn and folding the river UI is fine here since this particular card smacks any draw that BB may have xc with (it hits T7, T8, 87, 85, and 75 - it misses xClubxClub and 54). Had the turn been something like 2Heart and the river paired the board I'd be more tempted to call with K high since almost all draws would have missed and this player may be aggro enough to bluff rivers with those busted draws after you x back the turn (his bluffing range may expand exponentially after seeing you xb).

12:25
ASpadeJDiamond in the CO - You open, BTN 3!, BB CC, you call
Flop:TSpade9Diamond7Spade - BTN cbets, BB calls, you call
I think you're correct that you have to peel here specifically because you are getting 11:1 on the call (enough for your GS + BD NFD)but we aren't really fist pumping if we hit our A or J (they feel pretty dirty in this situation). I actually feel like this is pretty close holding the AClub as opposed to ASpade.
Turn: 6Spade Easy turn peel, too bad you whiffed the river. It's definitely worth noting BTN 3b your open with K9s + BB took 2 to the face with QJs (also worth noting how BB played his flopped OESD passively but xr/capped the river with the nut straight vs. a 3 flush board).

14:00
JDiamond9Heart - you open from the CO and BB CC
Flop:QHeartQClub2Heart - BB xc your cbet
Turn: 9Spade - You bet again for value -don't worry about getting raised here - this player seems passive enough that you're beat a huge proportion of the time if he raises the turn here.

14:53
ASpade7Heart in BB - BTN OL, SB raises, you call, BTN calls
Both players appear to be L/P so far but your sample size is much too small to draw any real conclusions. I actually really kinda of want to 3b this pre and see if the BTN will gladly donate to the pot by either limp/folding or by taking a 3bet to the face with any 2 cards he limps with. There is also really no reason to think that you don't have the best hand here a reasonable percentage of the time.
Flop: AClubQClub5Spade - SB bets, you raise, BTN folds, SB 3!, you call.
I agree with you about not liking your hand given this action but I also think that calling down is close to mandatory given that we don't know squat about the SB - unfortunately he showed up with a batter ace than you (two of them in fact) on the river.

16:16
ADiamond3Spade in CO - BTN is generally tight, please raise this rather than folding it in a 4 handed game.

22:04
Tired Oba!

24:02
ADiamondQDiamond in SB - UTG opens, you 3!, he calls
Flop: AHeartAClubJSpade
You say that you're not going to get any money out of the villain - don't think so negatively Oba! Sure, you won't make any money when he has nothing, but he'll also call you down when he has something.
Turn: KDiamond
You say here that he has to have precisely QT to be ahead of you - he could also have AK, AJ, KK, or JJ, but you shouldn't let that stop you from betting your highly probable nuts.

25:20
QSpade9Club in MP - UTG OL, you hover over the raise button and say "it's so tempting" before folding.
I'm glad cooler heads prevailed here - UTG is tight and passive. Also, you have a fishy player waiting to act behind you OTB - not a good situation for Q9o to try for an ISO.

26-ish
KClubQDiamond - Agree with LQ here, don't consider it a waste of money to raise pre and peel twice in this situation. I am not a fan of the river call with K high UI though.

29:00
ASpadeKSpade
Board: KDiamond6Club5Spade 2Diamond
I am kind of torn between raising the turn or raising the river when villain donks into us on the turn. I see the 2Diamond as a blank, does he really have AA, KK, 66, 55, 22, K6, K5, K2, 65, 62, 52, or 43 here? What I am picturing is XDiamondxDiamond (possibly with a pair or straight draw), weaker K's, and random/spazzy bluff/bad value types of hands donking the turn.

29:20
9Diamond8Club - UTG OL, you ISO from CO, BB CC, UTG calls
Honestly, I am not a huge fan of ISOing with 98o vs. a loose UTG open limper and a loose BB - make the hand suited or JT and I can totally get on board with the play though. What you do have going for you is that the BTN and SB are both tight so it won't go off 4 or 5 handed very often and you'll usually have the best position throughout the hand.
Flop: 9Club8Heart7Heart - You bet, BB folds, UTG xr, you call
What's your plan for the turn here? What cards (if any) are you folding, calling, or raising on?
I think your turn and river value bets are right on when the board bricks off like it did and UTG went totally passive.

31:12
KDiamondJHeart in SB - BTN opens, you 3!, BB folds, BTN calls
Flop: ADiamond9Heart2Club - you bet, BTN calls
Turn: QSpade - you x, BTN xb
River: 9Diamond - you bet, BTN raises, you fold
The pre 3! and flop cbet are totally standard on this dry A high board. I think you need to decide what you are going to do on various turns here (actually we should all do this every hand). When the Q rolls off the deck you seem unsure of how to proceed so you check (AmIRight?) and BTN checks back. Now you need to decide if you should bluff catch with your nut no pair hand (I personally don't think it's correct here, the villain should have a piece of this flop when he peels since the pot was 3b pre and there are no real draws present). I really dislike the river bet after checking the turn, you're getting no value from worse hands and better should fold pretty much never. I think you were really confused on the turn and river this hand but don't be hard on yourself - we all get confused at times.
*LOL note: I wrote this before hearing your post hand commentary. Smile

31:57
QHeartQSpade OTB - CO opens, you 3!, blinds fold, CO calls
Flop: AHeart9Club7Club - CO xc your cbet
Turn: 8Spade - CO xc again
River: 4Club - You xb
I think you played this hand well. TBH, I found the 8 on the turn a bit unsettling, but not enough to deter a value bet. I know it might have felt as if you missed a bet on the river but I still think it was the right decision. It would have felt pretty thin given the way the board ran out. You were beat by any A on the flop, the 8 filled in some possible 2 pair and gutshot combos, and the river Club filled in the primary draw. Others may disagree with me and I could certainly be swayed in the other direction by a compelling argument.

32:50
AHeartJDiamond OTB - MP OL, you ISO, both blinds fold
Flop: 9Diamond6Spade2Spade - you bet, MP calls
Turn: 4Diamond - you bet, MP calls again
River: KSpade - you xb
Villain is the same one from the hand at 29:20 (xr flop, xc turn, xc river with the busted NFD). My immediate reaction to his flop xc was "he plays big draws aggro". Following that logic I figured he had neither ASpadexSpade (probably no flush draws actually) nor 87. I also kind of figure that he'd be the type of player that would play TP/GK or better hands aggro (but likely to xc down vs. turn and river overcards) as well. So, what does that leave in his xc range? Weak A high, TP/crap kicker, 2nd or 3rd pair, small PP, some gutterballs, overcards (most of which you are beating), and air (hoping to spike a pair on the turn or river).
I like the flop and turn value bets here and think the river xb is ok as well because by the river the only hand he could call you with that you beat is a worse A high but I think most of his river xc range is beating you (note: I did not count combos on this so I could be using some flawed logic).

Posted over 2 years ago

nonsimplesimon

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76 posts
Joined 02/2010

^^^^^^^ now that's a great guy! NP man!

Posted over 2 years ago

obadonke

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1647 posts
Joined 03/2009

^^^^^^^ now that's a great guy! NP man!



for real!

Posted over 2 years ago

obadonke

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1647 posts
Joined 03/2009

Ok! I've read and seriously considered all your points DrGrip.

Having been unhappy with the way I responded to LQ, I'm not going to defend any of my actions this time. If I don't comment on a particular observation it's 'cos I understood it, accepted it and have no comments worth sharing.

Thank you very much for highlighting good note taking opportunities and also explaining how you'd use those notes.

Beyond that, your response really makes me wonder if I'll ever be good enough at the key elements of this game (e.g. hand-reading, note-taking) to be successful. I feel like an absolute beginner compared to you!

In a similar vein, I will respectfully ignore some of your advice about opening wider (A3o 16:16) and calling down lighter (K5 11:41) for the time being. When I can read villains/hands as well as you, I'll try to incorporate these points.

3:20
...
Actually, the BB in this hand is also in my DB and his Fold BB to Steal stat is much lower in mine. Do you have SB and BB fold to steal merged in your HUD? I'm much closer to your number if I combine the stats I have for both blinds.



Stats shown are Fold SB to Steal first then Fold BB to Steal. I think the difference in our stats is just a convergence issue. For this villain I had 13 samples for SB and 15 samples for BB.

9:40
T8 in the CO - you open and both blinds call (note to take: sb cc pre and xf on a ragged flop).
Flop: 753 - you cbet and both blinds fold
I think your cbet is fairly close against 2 cold callers but I'm a bit conflicted because it also feels completely mandatory when you only have T high.
What's your plan for the turn if called by sb (what cards are you betting, what cards are you xing back?)?
Same question if called by BB?
What if you're called in both spots?



I would give up UI on the turn (except possibly represent an Ace) and think about getting away from my hand if the board turned nasty (more hearts, straightening) and/or I got heat from either player.

Although a cold-call from the SB in a 3 way pot doesn't fill me with admiration, knowing very little about him leads me to err on the side of caution until he gives me reason to do otherwise.

29:20
Flop: 987 - You bet, BB folds, UTG xr, you call
What's your plan for the turn here? What cards (if any) are you folding, calling, or raising on?
I think your turn and river value bets are right on when the board bricks off like it did and UTG went totally passive.


With two pair (one top pair) on this very co-ordinated board, I'm only folding to runner runner hearts - at least vs this villain.
I will bet/call for value on any turn card that doesn't improve me to a full house.
I would raise/call any non-heart turn for value.

That's about the sum-total of my thought process at this point.

Should I find a more reasons to fold the river if he continues to bring heat on the turn - maybe the cards that complete the most straight draws e.g. T and 6?

22:04
Tired Oba!



Smile I'm lucky not to have lost a bunch in this session. I should have quit much sooner. The last 10 minutes are a good example of how my game deteriorates imo. The following comments will hopefully explain...

29:00
AK
Board: K65 2



Ironically I'd already decided this villain was playing "odd" in the last hand but didn't make any notes and then completely forgot in the space of 30 seconds (fish?).

29:20...
Honestly, I am not a huge fan of ISOing with 98o vs. a loose UTG open limper and a loose BB - make the hand suited or JT and I can totally get on board with the play though.



This is a good example of the type of hand that Entity called me out on and I'd say it's the main reason I've been losing for months.

You know why I played this hand? Because my mind was focused on the last hand and my fingers auto-opened pretty 98o.

31:57
QQ OTB - CO opens, you 3!, blinds fold, CO calls
Flop: A97 - CO xc your cbet
Turn: 8 - CO xc again
River: 4 - You xb
I think you played this hand well. TBH, I found the 8 on the turn a bit unsettling, but not enough to deter a value bet.



Honestly... whilst I'm sure somewhere in my head I could tell there were plenty of draws, I bet the turn on this hand mainly because I was annoyed. Frown

----
so, THANK YOU DRGRIP!
I will think long and hard about my note-taking habits and also my ability to follow the action. Both you and LQ have named and shamed me in this thread!

Posted over 2 years ago

DrGrip

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461 posts
Joined 10/2009

Beyond that, your response really makes me wonder if I'll ever be good enough at the key elements of this game (e.g. hand-reading, note-taking) to be successful. I feel like an absolute beginner compared to you!



I think that many of us question our abilities at various points in our development. Keep your chin up Oba, this is absolutely normal. I'm certainly not omniscient when it comes to hand reading. I actually have a piece of paper posted next to my computer that reads:

Before you bet ask yourself:
"Am I value betting or bluffing?"
If you're value betting: "What worse hands can call?"
If you're bluffing: "What better hands will fold?"
Do Not mindlessly barrel off!
Do Not call down with weak hands when a passive player puts in significant action!

So clearly I still need reminders of how to handle certain situations. But asking myself these questions before I make a bet certainly helps to point me in the right direction regarding if betting is actually correct in a situation. And, if you look at the last two lines there, can you tell that I was a total barrel and SD monkey for a while?
Also, when it comes to hand reading (like I said, I'm not omniscient) I got to where I am now by being wrong a lot...and I'm still wrong a lot, but I don't feel bad about being wrong...I just treat it as information to use later and as something to learn from. Also, I listen to how other, more seasoned, LHE players (DD, Entity, OTR, Mikefut, LQ, Hood, etc...just to name a few) think about a hand and try to understand/incorporate the way they see things into my own game...and doing this has helped tremendously. Another thing, don't compare where you are in your development to where other people are..compare where you are today to where you were a week/month/year ago. For example: I just started playing 6m LHE almost exactly a year ago and if I look at how I was then and compare it to where I am now I can see definitive progress. But I also know that I am not at the level of many of the players mentioned above.

Also, good note taking takes practice...but if you practice it often it will become a habit. I never used to take notes until I watched a series (I think it was The Peanut Collector) with BBB and PH and then I realized how useful notes can be! Smile

I don't know if you've watched TEPTPE but in one episode Tommy talks about changing the object of the game (e.g making the object of the game table/seat selection, quitting, etc...rather than the object of the game being to make money) perhaps take a session or two a week and making the object of the game taking good notes (this would be your focus for that session) would help you in developing good note taking habits.

Also, I noticed that your notes are pretty verbose when you do take them...this may be somewhat of a deterrent for you as well, try using your own form of shorthand (something that makes sense to you). I'll use an example of how I would do this using a hand from your session.
We'll use the hand where you isoed with 98o for the example (I'll try to put it in a quasi HH format:

Hero is dealt 9Diamond8Club
UTG calls, MP folds, Hero raises, BTN folds, SB folds, BB calls, UTG calls
Flop: 9Club8Heart7Heart
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, BB folds, UTG raises, Hero calls
Turn: 4Spade
UTG checks, Hero bets, UTG calls
River: 2Spade
UTG checks, Hero bets, UTG calls
UTG shows A[heart]3[heart]
My typical format for note taking is: preflop action/hand, postflop action [f][t][r], board (draw notes in parenthesis)
So I would note the way the hand played out in the following way against this villain: OL UTG/cISO A3s, xr xc xc, 987tt(NFD)4o 7o
The english version would be: open limp UTG/call ISO A3s, xr(flop) xc(turn) xc(river), 987tt (Nut flush draw) 4o 2o.

If I get a few similar notes, I condense them into a single note such as as follows: xr big draws on flop, xcd A high UI
Let's say we see him check raise the flop with draws and continue to bet turns and rivers when he hits, but just xcd when he misses...then the note would be: xr big flopped draws, b b (hit), xc xc (miss, Ahi UI) when we converge notes like that it gives us a clearer picture of how we should play our hands against this type of villain (seems pretty easy doesn't it?). Similarly, if we find out he also check/raises made hands on the flop and continues to bet them, folding becomes easier when we have a hand that can only beat a bluff since he doesn't barrel off all of his draws. This particular type of villain is about as easy as they come in terms of exploitability.

In a similar vein, I will respectfully ignore some of your advice about opening wider (A3o 16:16) and calling down lighter (K5 11:41) for the time being. When I can read villains/hands as well as you, I'll try to incorporate these points.


This is fine, if you're not comfortable making plays like this don't do them (opening A3o here was something I would only do with a foldy BTN since it could become very difficult to play if BTN, SB, and BB are all loose/cally players). What's your typical A high opening range in the CO?

As far as the K5s hand goes, that was based more on our/his actions and if the board ran out in a brick-ish fashion (not say calling a bet there is correct, just that I would be tempted to call in some cases against some opponents). Something I have been kind of fiddling around with is inducing bluffs from my opponents in situations where they really can't call a bet with worse hands (mmm extracting bets I can't otherwise win...yummy!). The basic idea is that by taking a passive action on the turn, your opponent's bluffing range gets wider than it would be otherwise (e.g. I check the turn with a hand I want to take to SD, the river bricks, they bet because I showed "weakness" in a spot that they would have only folded worse and only called or raised with better...so maybe now I am getting 3:1 on a call but I think that their bluffing range has expanded to maybe being about 30% of their bets so I gain some fractions of a BB on the call where I would have been putting a bet in bad when he calls, does that make sense?).

Stats shown are Fold SB to Steal first then Fold BB to Steal. I think the difference in our stats is just a convergence issue. For this villain I had 13 samples for SB and 15 samples for BB.


Nah, I just misread your HUD...those numbers are almost exactly what I have...I thought the number immediately to the right of FtS: was the BB#, I don't have the SB# in my HUD because if a player frequently calls or raises out of the SB I notice it and if he calls super often in the BB he also usually plays the SB far too loose (by calling) as well.

I would give up UI on the turn (except possibly represent an Ace) and think about getting away from my hand if the board turned nasty (more hearts, straightening) and/or I got heat from either player.



Personally, I would bet the turn on a lot of cards (not sure that it'd be correct) against just one caller, against two callers I'd be giving up almost always. Against one caller I'd probably be betting any A, K, Q, T, or 8 and part of me wants to keep betting a 9 or 6 (I think the 6 is a lot closer than a 9) but I'm having a hard time thinking about what better hands will fold on those two cards(all pairs probably call).

With two pair (one top pair) on this very co-ordinated board, I'm only folding to runner runner hearts - at least vs this villain.
I will bet/call for value on any turn card that doesn't improve me to a full house.



I think your thinking is close on this one.

I would raise/call any non-heart turn for value.


I like it!

That's about the sum-total of my thought process at this point.

Should I find a more reasons to fold the river if he continues to bring heat on the turn - maybe the cards that complete the most straight draws e.g. T and 6?



In this spot I think in terms of what cards are just awful for my hand. The JHeart comes to mind, closely followed by 6Heart as the absolute worst cards in the deck for us (both complete all of the big draws against us). I'm also not loving the other J's, 6's, and hearts. I'm not fist pumping against an offsuit T or 5, but if they come and the river is a total brick I think a call would be fine.

Ironically I'd already decided this villain was playing "odd" in the last hand but didn't make any notes and then completely forgot in the space of 30 seconds (fish?).


Yeah, it was an odd play on the part of the villain. I mean, yeah...you lost some value in the hand by not raising, but got the same amount as you would have if he check/called down and it's kind of a puke/call spot if he 3 bets and then leads the river. That was actually what I was thinking when I was reviewing the video as well...but man, I still really wanted to punch the raise button for you! Smile

This is a good example of the type of hand that Entity called me out on and I'd say it's the main reason I've been losing for months.

You know why I played this hand? Because my mind was focused on the last hand and my fingers auto-opened pretty 98o.


I don't mind opening 98o in the CO, the problem was that there was a limper in front of you. I understand getting a bit distracted from time to time, it happens. How about a compromise when it comes to opening up the replayer to review a hand? Rather than opening it to see the results of a hand, try making a commitment to only open it if you are intending to take a note on the hand and then follow through on taking the notes? You can kill 2 birds with one stone that way...you get to satisfy your curiosity and develop your reads and note taking skills. Smile TBH, if you're just checking to see the results of a hand without gaining any real information from it you are doing yourself a disservice since you aren't really gaining anything from it and you are taking your attention away from what is happening right at that moment.

Honestly... whilst I'm sure somewhere in my head I could tell there were plenty of draws, I bet the turn on this hand mainly because I was annoyed.


Ahh yes, the frustration bet...we all make those too from time to time. At least they aren't as spewy as a frustration raise! Smile

so, THANK YOU DRGRIP!
I will think long and hard about my note-taking habits and also my ability to follow the action. Both you and LQ have named and shamed me in this thread!


Not a problem Oba, this was a good/useful exercise for me as well given that my volume was super low over the past couple weeks. The intent wasn't to shame you (I know that you know that) but to help you while you are struggling...and I hope we've managed to do that. Smile

One more note: A couple months ago I was losing massively (actually wiped out all of my earnings for the year in 3 months) one thing that helped me was a good in depth review of my play in a couple of sessions. One session was from when I was doing well and the other was from when I was doing poorly. I went through and reviewed every single hand from both sessions by typing out the hole cards, actions, and pot sizes(even hands I folded preflop...well, my hole cards anyways) and then wrote notes (including equity calcs) by hand in the margins to help identify leaks in my game. I then classified those leaks as passive and aggressive. When I compared the notes from both sessions to each other (both were chosen at random, but I did specify that one had to be a winning session and the other a losing one) I found that many of the leaks were the same, the only difference was that I was falling victim to those leaks much more frequently in my losing session than my winning one. It helped me to at least reduce the leakage in my game to a trickle rather than being a torrent. It was a massively time consuming exercise (I think the total time involved was something like 12 hours) but well worth it IMO. This exercise also helped me think in terms of hand ranges and how those ranges interact with boards. Perhaps a similar (but maybe not as intense) exercise would do your game some good as well.

Sheesh...in person I am a quiet guy, but oddly enough I am rarely at a loss for words as evidenced in my two posts here.

Posted over 2 years ago

obadonke

Avatar for obadonke

1647 posts
Joined 03/2009

obadonke

Avatar for obadonke

1647 posts
Joined 03/2009

i don't really want to bump this *but* just a note to say I've re-watched parts of the video today and OMG! HOW FRUSTRATING!!

I missed so many reads through distraction and tiredness. I was tilting when an A landed on the flop and hardly thinking about most profitable action on later streets. ARGH!!!!

Sure hope I don't make any more videos like this. I never want to play in this frame of mind again, let alone record it!

Posted over 2 years ago




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