Poker Video: No Limit Hold'Em by KRANTZ (High Stakes)

Remember the Railbirds: Episode Two

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Remember the Railbirds: Episode Two by KRANTZ, FoxwoodsFiend

KRANTZ and FoxwoodsFiend continue discussing the match against tie53, some analysis of big hands, and some math from FWF!

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300/600NL Heads Up. Tie53 vs DaEvils. FoxwoodsFiend and KRANTZ. When Ariel played Tie53 last year over the course of several epic sessions, the railbird in us was present in full force, hole-card camera in hand. Explore the nuances of super high-stakes heads up play as two of the top NLHE players in the world pick each others brains and over the course of the season analyze 2007's heads up slugfest against this mysterious opponent.

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krantz foxwoodsfiend high stakes huhu heads up no limit tie53 nosebleed

Video Details

  • Game: nlhe
  • Stakes: High Stakes
  • 59 minutes long
  • Posted about 6 years ago

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Sugar Nut

Avatar for Sugar Nut

842 posts
Joined 03/2008

Sugar Nut,

Just vote again, it will change it. It's one vote per account, but you can change your vote at any time.

-Joe



Wow, didn't know that. Just gave 5 stars although by now it only made .1 difference, but I was the first voter so this 1 star rating for a probably very good video looked kinda ugly.

Posted about 6 years ago

rusty trombone

Avatar for rusty trombone

102 posts
Joined 01/2008

don't know what else to say, but it's basically trying to make yourself harder to play against by not playing so formulaically that your opponent can figure out what you have.




yeah thats kinda what i figured. guess i thought maybe there was some type of formula for not playing formulaically. o_0

Posted about 6 years ago

yeahthatsme

Avatar for yeahthatsme

734 posts
Joined 06/2008

It's really a blast to watch these. It's like being part of a great discussion session between friends, but at a much higher level. Poker is fun. LOL.

On a side note, would finding out the identity of Tie53 have any value at this point?

Posted about 6 years ago

AZJD

Avatar for AZJD

58 posts
Joined 01/2008

FWF, can you discuss the river value bet on the KJ hand at around 50 minutes please? In the video you say something like "it's an obvious value bet here" but then you end up having to fold to a ck/raise. I have been looking at these river bets in my own game to see if I should avoid some spots where a slightly profitable river bet can get me into trouble. I can't quite figure out when it's right to just back off and check it down.

If I think I am something like 55/45 vs his range, I obviously make money overall when he calls, but in spots like this one where it's possible you are beat AND you could face a ck/raise bluff (even if unlikely), I hate missing the chance to showdown my reasonable hand.

Please explain how you weigh these at the table and if possible, show some post-play analysis on this hand.

Thanks.

Posted about 6 years ago

achilles157

Avatar for achilles157

2 posts
Joined 01/2008

Just one problem- Why are there various hands where your hole cards are not shown? That seems weird, something that should be there always.

Posted about 6 years ago

yeahthatsme

Avatar for yeahthatsme

734 posts
Joined 06/2008

It was explained in episode 1. The video was recorded by a friend of DaEvils, then DaEvils went back and found all of the related hand histories so the cards could be shown. That's why his dealt hands are not shown directly.

Posted about 6 years ago

Canis Eruptus

Avatar for Canis Eruptus

165 posts
Joined 02/2008

only like 18 min in . . .

When I saw that 55 hand that tie bet when the river came a 2nd 6 I was thinking this guy's an idiot. I think there is basically a 0% percent chance he thought he was Vbetting. He just was like "well if he has a bigger pair I'll just rep that the river helped me and he'll fold." Also no player who defends K6o to a 3 bet is capable of value betting 55 there. BTW, all your vidoes are awesome, thanks. But you know that ;-). . . .

Posted about 6 years ago

goldseraph

Avatar for goldseraph

1495 posts
Joined 03/2008

Loving this series guys Smile I was railing some of the Tie53 action at the time, it's great to get a behind the scenes look at this matchup.

Posted about 6 years ago

goldseraph

Avatar for goldseraph

1495 posts
Joined 03/2008

That KJ straight fold on the riv, is the type of spot I call and spew off my money all too often. Like you said, I will justify myself into calling with some weak rationalization, like 'donk + wider ranges hu + aggro = call'. Basically we do not think clearly sometimes when we have a hand we liked a lot, and have already committed a lot to, even if reasonable analysis would suggest that you're beat.

Posted about 6 years ago

gring000h

Avatar for gring000h

1582 posts
Joined 03/2008

ok, love the vid, 5 stars easy, but what is up with the calculation at the end yo?

it is beyond wrong and it's tilting me like nothing else

the calculation in the vid shows how often our bet should make villain fold to show a profit after we've already established villain is calling 100%..?

if the dude calls our 19800 turn bet 100% of the time as the last money that goes into the pot, we show an immediate profit on the bet alone: 0.66 * -19800 + 0.34 * (19800 + 28799) = +3456

this doesn't include the times villain folds or villain reraises and we fold or the times we hit, then value bet and get paid off or pay villain off if he has us beat

awesome vid either way though +)

Posted about 6 years ago

FoxwoodsFiend

Avatar for FoxwoodsFiend

345 posts
Joined 10/2007

ok, love the vid, 5 stars easy, but what is up with the calculation at the end yo?

it is beyond wrong and it's tilting me like nothing else

the calculation in the vid shows how often our bet should make villain fold to show a profit after we've already established villain is calling 100%..?

if the dude calls our 19800 turn bet 100% of the time as the last money that goes into the pot, we show an immediate profit on the bet alone: 0.66 * -19800 + 0.34 * (19800 + 28799) = +3456

this doesn't include the times villain folds or villain reraises and we fold or the times we hit, then value bet and get paid off or pay villain off if he has us beat

awesome vid either way though +)



you're right that I didn't make the proper equation but you're wrong in your claim that a bet is profitable if called 100% of the time. the reason is that there could be situations in which there's enough dead money that all decisions/bet sizes (jam, 2/3, 3/4 pot, etc) are technically "profitable" the way you described them. this doesn't mean that a bet would be good (imagine you have almost no equity on every dollar that goes in but there's a billion dollars in the pot and you know you're always getting called and never facing a bet if you check: a bet will be "profitable" in a vacuum but not compared to your other options).

what i should have done is figured out what % of the time he has to fold a hand like AJ/99 for a bet to be more profitable than a check (assuming he checks those hands behind). i'm too lazy to do that at the moment (trying to get to all the comments) but it wouldlook something like (x)(-19800)+(1-x)(19800+28799)=(.34)(pot size+(bet size)(x%hecallswithworsewhenyouhit+(1-x%hecallswithbetterwhenyouhit))

Posted about 6 years ago

FoxwoodsFiend

Avatar for FoxwoodsFiend

345 posts
Joined 10/2007

only like 18 min in . . .

When I saw that 55 hand that tie bet when the river came a 2nd 6 I was thinking this guy's an idiot. I think there is basically a 0% percent chance he thought he was Vbetting. He just was like "well if he has a bigger pair I'll just rep that the river helped me and he'll fold." Also no player who defends K6o to a 3 bet is capable of value betting 55 there. BTW, all your vidoes are awesome, thanks. But you know that ;-). . . .



i think it's more likely he's thinking "5s!" than he's thinking he'll bluff an overpair. also being loose preflop to rr's doesn't preclude you from value betting thin, don't think like that

Posted about 6 years ago

FoxwoodsFiend

Avatar for FoxwoodsFiend

345 posts
Joined 10/2007

FWF, can you discuss the river value bet on the KJ hand at around 50 minutes please? In the video you say something like "it's an obvious value bet here" but then you end up having to fold to a ck/raise. I have been looking at these river bets in my own game to see if I should avoid some spots where a slightly profitable river bet can get me into trouble. I can't quite figure out when it's right to just back off and check it down.

If I think I am something like 55/45 vs his range, I obviously make money overall when he calls, but in spots like this one where it's possible you are beat AND you could face a ck/raise bluff (even if unlikely), I hate missing the chance to showdown my reasonable hand.

Please explain how you weigh these at the table and if possible, show some post-play analysis on this hand.

Thanks.



thing is i think i'm way more than a 55/45 favorite. some value bets you might check back because you don't want to get check/raised but it's too easy for him to call you here to pass on the opportunity.

Posted about 6 years ago

FoxwoodsFiend

Avatar for FoxwoodsFiend

345 posts
Joined 10/2007

I have few questions regarding KJ hand (around ~50min mark):
-what is the weakest hand you would call his raise there? K-hi flush?
-same question, but river is now offsuit 7?
-what if river brings flush, but board is unpaired?

-weakest hand to value-bet river? is KQ strong enough to bet?
-assuming you were deeper, say you have ~120K left - what would be the weakest hand to 3-bet shove for value?



sorry but this is all way too hard to answer and i'm not positive about the counterfactuals you presented. in the hand i'd have called with all full houses and no flushes (if i have ace-high flush he can't have it and if i don't i lose to his nut flush too often) the wy the match had been going.

KQ is barely strong enough to vb because he's so loose and can have Qx. deep the weakest hand I 3bet for value is probably 9T

Posted about 6 years ago

JuliCash

Avatar for JuliCash

3 posts
Joined 07/2008

First: Great Series! Its very entertaining and a good education (Not many Pokervids can be that)
but one hand:

I dont like the call on the river with JJ on the left side:
I dont see him bluffing often on the river:
the c/r on the flop means: Any Ace, FD, Maybe Midpair (But prob would just flatcall) and Air and of course 2pair and Set
than we can assume that he dont have the Ace after the check-behind on the turn. He either has Air, Turned FH or a Flush Draw (Maybe he would bet a FD with no Showdown Value, but he has taken a Freecard with a few Draws before) He would definitly bet the A and the 9 i think.
On the river everything speaks for the flush, and he never shown up that hes bluffin on a completing draw, so i would just fold it.

Just my 2 cents

Julius

Posted about 6 years ago




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