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Hey everyone, never been a huge fan of min opening unless im taking a shot or playing vs hyper aggro 3 bettors and dont want to play a high varience yet +ev 4bet jam game, i can see the obv advantages for opening min...like 150 bb effective stacks, PSR that favours the guy in position ect ect.

i think im just so used to/comfortable with the standard 3 x open game now min opening is becoming common place im feeling a little disorientated.

what im finding is when im min opening vs alot of regs im getting 3bet 3x my min open pretty relentlessly....this leads me to 4bet a wider range rightly or wrongly? and im getting flatted alot more by a wider range of hands, i presume due to there being slightly more $ behind...just like to hear some thoughts on how people are adjusting to the min open/3bet/4bet game due to it becoming kinda the norm these days??

Thanx

Steve

Im not really sure what your question is.

But if you are getting 3bet a lot the best plan (especially w $ behind) is to not fold. I usually call a whole variety of hands against high 3bettors.

Against min raises. You should call more OOP
If they fold to opens too much. Min raise.

1) the size of your open has little to do with the variance of the game.

2) dont suddenly change your strategy when you take a shot. If you have a system that works, keep it.

3) you can open 2.5x on the btn, it doesn't have to be either 3 or 2.

4) if someone is 3betting a lot just call them in position and play post flop. They will likely adjust by not 3betting so much.

5) If people are min opening, just play more hands. If someone is min opening 75% on the btn, you can profitably defend 50%+ from the BB. Having said this, I haven't done any maths behind it, so I could be wrong.

Im not really sure what your question is.

But if you are getting 3bet a lot the best plan (especially w $ behind) is to not fold. I usually call a whole variety of hands against high 3bettors.

Against min raises. You should call more OOP
If they fold to opens too much. Min raise.

Yea i probs didnt explain that too great, just wondering if people's 4betting ranges change any due to the fact there's more $ behind and the fact villain is probably calling 4bets more due to this fact? or thats what im seeing at the moment anyway.

1) the size of your open has little to do with the variance of the game.

2) dont suddenly change your strategy when you take a shot. If you have a system that works, keep it.

3) you can open 2.5x on the btn, it doesn't have to be either 3 or 2.

4) if someone is 3betting a lot just call them in position and play post flop. They will likely adjust by not 3betting so much.

5) If people are min opening, just play more hands. If someone is min opening 75% on the btn, you can profitably defend 50%+ from the BB. Having said this, I haven't done any maths behind it, so I could be wrong.

think reducing varience is the main reason people open for 2x, cant see much other reason for doing it .

Min opening is good when you want to open a lot of hands and your opponent likes to 3bet, because you can 4bet wider and call wider.

With that out of the way.

The 3bet/range should be something like top 25%-30% because we with that range can call 4bets, shove over the 4bet and fold some hands.

The smart reader may notice that it becomes very hard for us to have a strong hand in single raised pots.. Well that does not matter.. because we are paying a very small price to enter that line and goofy hands flop something often enough.

Vs a really small 3bet you can call with a _really wide_ range. Here I'm assuming that villain is 3betting a lot. The tricky part is constructing a good 4bet range. Many of the hands that would be good candidates to 4bet would also fit well into our flatting range (because villain calls 4bet with such a high frequency that we cannot ignore it).. But by 4betting say KQ we risk getting 5bet/bluffed. Well.. some food for thought.. as long as you don't 4bet junk you should be fine.

think reducing varience is the main reason people open for 2x, cant see much other reason for doing it .

Can you explain this? I'm not sure I follow. Seems like min opening would increase variance because you end up involved in more pots post flop.

Good stuff Improva thanks

Can you explain this? I'm not sure I follow. Seems like min opening would increase variance because you end up involved in more pots post flop.

Ahh i was just meaning like opening min 100bb's deep creates 150bb effective stacks,pots post flop are smaller, you risk less in order to steal pre and it doesnt have to work as much to be profitable, 3bet/4bet bluff sizes are smaller thus costing less, and due to there being more $ behind high varience 4bet jamming isnt as appealing ...theres probs more reasons why opening min reduces varience but those are just off the top of my head

The 3bet/range should be something like top 25%-30% because we with that range can call 4bets, shove over the 4bet and fold some hands.

Are you advocating 3betting 25%-30% against 100% min raise openers??

Are you advocating 3betting 25%-30% against 100% min raise openers??

Top 25% vs a good player more if he sucks.

Yea i probs didnt explain that too great, just wondering if people's 4betting ranges change any due to the fact there's more $ behind and the fact villain is probably calling 4bets more due to this fact? or thats what im seeing at the moment anyway.

you can 4bet more because your 4bet will be smaller with more money behind, giving him a worse price on his 5bet bluffs. You can also obviously call more with more money behind as that gives you more positional maneuverability.

yea just got sort out my ranges out think due to villains 4bet calling range being alot wider and not weighted so heavily to J-x,Q-x type stuff

Wow I didn't realize this thread was about HU. Now it all makes more sense.

You can call a really wide range vs a min open, some players will even defend 100% vs villain who's min opening 100%, granted they feel they have a big enough post flop edge. I'm obviously not advocating this, but in general you should be playing minimum 65% vs a min raise 100% villain.

The less % they are opening, the less % you have to defend.

Personally I think MR100% is great HU because people generally play way to tight. It is also great when they 3b a ton because you can just call a really wide range and play post flop.

Start 4betting and see his reaction, try to 4bet with something Ax hands and obv your real good hands.
if you wanna call his 3 bet more often,first you have to figure out how does he play his 3 bet pots post flop you cant just call him wider because he opens wide.! but usually they suck so you can call, donn forget when you call wider your first line of thought is to steal the pot because with a wider range that you will call the 3bet you will not make a strong hand post flop. so if you think there is more chance for you to steal than make a real hand then call.!
about opening 2x: if someone opens 2x im more willing to play post flop because there is more room to play post flop, yea yea you will get more 3bets when you open 2x and you defiantly will get more calls, if you feel comfortable and you think you can handle it, then do it, there are no good or bad about it.