Poker Video: No Limit Hold'Em by WiltOnTilt (Mid Stakes)

Mentor: WiltOnTilt (#20) - 200NL Heads Up

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Mentor: WiltOnTilt (#20) - 200NL Heads Up by WiltOnTilt

WiltOnTilt reviews the same player from last week's video, but this week is based at 200NL.

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wiltontilt heads up mentor hunlhe nlhe 200nl 200 nl $1/2

Video Details

  • Game: nlhe
  • Stakes: Mid Stakes
  • 48 minutes long
  • Posted almost 3 years ago

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Comments for Mentor: WiltOnTilt (#20) - 200NL Heads Up

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daniels8855

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2 posts
Joined 02/2012

Emergence

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491 posts
Joined 07/2009

Time Link to 00:34:09

Why do people do this? You're stacking off vs the top of his range anyways, so why not just give villain the opportunity to bluff rivers? An added benefit is that we might get a better understanding of his check/raising range, which is something we want. It just seems such a waste to fold out stuff like 9Ts that would have otherwise put in two more barrels because the turn gave them fold equity over our perceived range. And the raise sizing as well, raising to 98 seems just too big, something like 85 will suffice.

Posted almost 3 years ago

Novemberrain

Avatar for Novemberrain

3 posts
Joined 12/2011

Time Link to 00:07:30

Don't you think hes range is filled with jacks/kings too much at this point? You said we are betting against queen, but i just cant see much of that other than QT/Q9, which could have raised flop as well. We are not even winning against worst kings.
This is like the weakest calling range i manage to give him, still 52% against us:
KTs-K2s,QTs-Q9s,J9s+,T9s,KTo-K2o,QTo-Q9o,J9o+,T9o
Could you please give a calling range you are betting against? Do you think people can call you down with like 88 on such board?
If you want to bet slightly -EV for meta-game purposes, how far are you willing to go with that, like if you think you have 40% when called in such spot, are you still betting?

P.S. thanks for all your work, recently got to DC, now watching you all the way from math series, its great!

Posted almost 3 years ago

B-rye88

Avatar for B-rye88

3326 posts
Joined 01/2011

Time Link to 00:18:32

WRT adding draws into a flop calling range;

I'm assuming that we want to be adding these hands in against players who are aggressive across multiple streets; if they are not re-opening the betting against us on the turn then we should be more likely to check raise flop (or x/c donk turn) with a wider variety of hands, including top pairs.

And I'm assuming that the better our draw the less inclined you are to raise flop and wait to the turn with it? Ex. for calling purposes A8hh > Q8hh > 87hh

Posted almost 3 years ago

ninjacut

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42 posts
Joined 12/2011

Definitely you need to get him to look at the hand history Smile
It was very amusing how tight his opponent was playing and still didn't have a hand to continue on post flop, making all these x/raises.

You said, the fact he folds so much to our opens pre flop, it's enough for us to not go crazy about 3-betting light, which is not so obvious to me. If we can get away with it, we should do it, and if he folds to our steals thats cool, we'll 3-bet him too.

Posted almost 3 years ago

zachd2323

Avatar for zachd2323

3148 posts
Joined 04/2010

Time Link to 00:46:51

I agree that this is a pretty clear slowplay given the game flow. He's been ch/r a lot so he has a lot of draws/air in his range, but he doesn't seem like the type that's going to spazz when we 3bet. By calling we give him a chance to turn TP or barrel OC because our range will be perceived to be weak.

Posted almost 3 years ago

WiltOnTilt

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2670 posts
Joined 10/2007

Why do people do this? You're stacking off vs the top of his range anyways, so why not just give villain the opportunity to bluff rivers? An added benefit is that we might get a better understanding of his check/raising range, which is something we want. It just seems such a waste to fold out stuff like 9Ts that would have otherwise put in two more barrels because the turn gave them fold equity over our perceived range. And the raise sizing as well, raising to 98 seems just too big, something like 85 will suffice.



agree completely

Posted almost 3 years ago

WiltOnTilt

Avatar for WiltOnTilt

2670 posts
Joined 10/2007

Don't you think hes range is filled with jacks/kings too much at this point? You said we are betting against queen, but i just cant see much of that other than QT/Q9, which could have raised flop as well. We are not even winning against worst kings.
This is like the weakest calling range i manage to give him, still 52% against us:
KTs-K2s,QTs-Q9s,J9s+,T9s,KTo-K2o,QTo-Q9o,J9o+,T9o
Could you please give a calling range you are betting against? Do you think people can call you down with like 88 on such board?
If you want to bet slightly -EV for meta-game purposes, how far are you willing to go with that, like if you think you have 40% when called in such spot, are you still betting?

P.S. thanks for all your work, recently got to DC, now watching you all the way from math series, its great!



River bet is thin, possibly too thin, but early in the match I don't mind going for value here and potentially value cutting myself. I think you might give him too many Jx in your range (ie, all the J9o combos might be a stretch) and also I think giving him every T9 combo is a mistake because he will c/r the flop or turn some % of the time (on this board, he should c/r the turn a lot), but it is hard to know exactly at this point - and to be fair we should probably give him a couple AT combos, but again not every one because they can be discounted by preflop, flop, and turn actions.

If you want to just check behind I don't think it's bad, and it could be best in a vacuum, but I don't like how gerard snap checked as he didnt even consider betting. Betting could be better for both meta game and just to see how fast/slow he calls with various hands and because it could simply be +EV. To answer your question though, I'm not willing to sacrifice a bunch of clear EV for future situations. If I think it's clearly -EV to make a play, I will virtually never do it for metagame reasons. If I think it could be close and we're not sure how good or bad it is, then I don't mind erroring on the side of value betting too thin or bluffing in a thin spot because I assume I can out adjust my opponent depending on the results of the hand.

Hope that helps

Posted almost 3 years ago

WiltOnTilt

Avatar for WiltOnTilt

2670 posts
Joined 10/2007

WRT adding draws into a flop calling range;

I'm assuming that we want to be adding these hands in against players who are aggressive across multiple streets; if they are not re-opening the betting against us on the turn then we should be more likely to check raise flop (or x/c donk turn) with a wider variety of hands, including top pairs.

And I'm assuming that the better our draw the less inclined you are to raise flop and wait to the turn with it? Ex. for calling purposes A8hh > Q8hh > 87hh



You either want to add these in vs guys who overextend themselves on the turn or against guys who don't bet the turn nearly enough. So it's a decent win for you if you know you can c/r a lot of turns with some of these weaker draws successfully and it's also a nice win for you to just get a free turn card against a guy who doesn't follow through enough on the turn himself. So you kind of want it skewed in one direction or the other.

For your example hands, the flop was 2 diamonds and you are mentioning hearts, I'm assuming you meant diamonds here, and in that case I might take the opposite approach as you. So if I have a really nice draw like OESD+FD, I might go ahead and just keep that in my flop c/r range because it's such a nice hand and it keeps our c/r range pretty strong (hand we're happy to get $ in). If I have some weaker draw, like say 78o on this board, and I'm planning to go for the turn c/r because the guy overextends himself way too much, then I don't mind using this weaker hand to do it because I'm not really hurting my flop c/r range too much and the reason i'm making the play is because of a leak in my opponent. I guess saying it another way, if you know the guy is sticking his neck out too far, you don't need a bunch of equity to make the play work. If you use a hand with a bunch of equity to do it, you might be better served by shifting that hand to a different range and using a weaker hand for it. It's an approach/theory I apply to a lot of situations that I don't necessary hear a lot of other people talking about.

It becomes much harder if the guy has more reasonable frequencies on each street. You might then want more equity on the turn to c/r because you are running into a stronger range more often.

Posted almost 3 years ago

WiltOnTilt

Avatar for WiltOnTilt

2670 posts
Joined 10/2007

Definitely you need to get him to look at the hand history Smile
It was very amusing how tight his opponent was playing and still didn't have a hand to continue on post flop, making all these x/raises.

You said, the fact he folds so much to our opens pre flop, it's enough for us to not go crazy about 3-betting light, which is not so obvious to me. If we can get away with it, we should do it, and if he folds to our steals thats cool, we'll 3-bet him too.



Yea, certainly be willing to TRY to 3bet him and take advantage of him in that respect too, just realize that you're playing against a much stronger starting range than you're used to if you're used to playing against a 100% button range and a lot of the hands that you're getting most people to fold to 3bets are hands he's not even opening himself to begin with.

I'm all for giving it a shot and seeing what you can get away with, just be ready to bail on the plan...

Posted almost 3 years ago

WiltOnTilt

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2670 posts
Joined 10/2007

I agree that this is a pretty clear slowplay given the game flow. He's been ch/r a lot so he has a lot of draws/air in his range, but he doesn't seem like the type that's going to spazz when we 3bet. By calling we give him a chance to turn TP or barrel OC because our range will be perceived to be weak.



Yep definitely.

Posted almost 3 years ago

Loiner

Avatar for Loiner

499 posts
Joined 05/2011

Time Link to 00:18:06

Thx for great video. This is a situation where villain checkraises big.

Your argument is that it's a snap fold since villain doesn't come across as a guy that makes too many moves given his pre-flop play.

I guess that makes a lot of sense. On the other hand he's not very likely to hold a nine given his calling range preflop and a lot of Pocket 5's would raise the flop.

How would you balance the two perceptions against each other?

Furthermore would you change your view on how to play the hand if the opponent was more tricky

Posted almost 3 years ago

Loiner

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499 posts
Joined 05/2011

Time Link to 00:20:08

Here you argue that continue betting is good on a Q,6,6 board since opponents calling range is so tight - mostly A,x and pocket pairs.

I would think that his range is an argument for not cbetting that board and wait to see what turn brings of scarecards and fours and fives. Because why would he ever fold this flop?

If we do decide to cbet the flop I guess we have to go for 3-streets-bluff. Is that right?

Posted almost 3 years ago

WiltOnTilt

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2670 posts
Joined 10/2007

Here you argue that continue betting is good on a Q,6,6 board since opponents calling range is so tight - mostly A,x and pocket pairs.

I would think that his range is an argument for not cbetting that board and wait to see what turn brings of scarecards and fours and fives. Because why would he ever fold this flop?

If we do decide to cbet the flop I guess we have to go for 3-streets-bluff. Is that right?



No I think we can just go 2 streets for bluff and expect to have this guy fold all his A high on the turn and a lot of his pocket pairs given how he was playing

Posted almost 3 years ago




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