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200NL bluffcatch,fold or turn it into bluff???

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chrisanagno

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175 posts
Joined 09/2010

Villain is a pretty decent reg whom i am 2tabling.
He steals 70%,F3B 55%,4B 13% about 200 hands.Dont have much info on how he plays on 4bet pots but on 3bet pots he is cbeting 88%,2B 30%.
imo flop and turn are standard.dont know how to interpet the small cbet and what is he expecting me to fold there given that this board hits my 4bet calling range.OTR i dont really know whats the best option..any guidance ??thanks in advance!

Ongame Network $1/$2 No Limit Hold'em - 2 players - View hand 1556647
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

Hero (BB): $251.10
BTN/SB: $198.00

Pre Flop: ($3.00) Hero is BB with K Spade Q Spade
BTN/SB raises to $4, Hero raises to $16, BTN/SB raises to $35, Hero calls $19

Flop: ($70.00) J Club 5 Heart Q Diamond (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN/SB bets $25, Hero calls $25

Turn: ($120.00) 4 Heart (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN/SB checks

River: ($120.00) A Club (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN/SB bets $70, Hero ???

Posted over 1 year ago

I3betyoutillyoudie

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2519 posts
Joined 11/2010

i call but im a station but i think most people will say fold here and they are probs right..

Posted over 1 year ago

chrisanagno

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175 posts
Joined 09/2010

if in his value range he has AK,AT does anyone think we can bluff shove?its has to work less than half time and we can rep straights,2p combos(not many sets thought)

Posted over 1 year ago

Foukus

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288 posts
Joined 01/2009

Why you call the 4bet? I think it's pretty bad if we don't have read on what he 4bets / how he plays on 4bet pots.

Posted over 1 year ago

marco

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690 posts
Joined 08/2010

i'm not a fan of calling 4bets at 100x, but i don't have a strategy for it either.

I do make small cbets all the time tho as a pf 4bettor.

river is disgusting, prob a fold. He has all AX in his range, not worse made hands,and his only bluffs would have to be complete trash 4betted pf.

Posted over 1 year ago

Hyrveli

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71 posts
Joined 09/2009

if in his value range he has AK,AT does anyone think we can bluff shove?its has to work less than half time and we can rep straights,2p combos(not many sets thought)



You'd have to give him extremely much credit for this move to work even remotely enough. People generally don't like folding HU and especially not TPTK in a 4bet pot! You also rep quite thin, possibly only AJ, KTs and QJs because most people get in AQ pre, but on the other hand you rep absolutely zero bluffs which is always nice. I think you'll get called really often nonetheless.

Calling is better than jamming, but folding is definitely best because most people choose to bluff with random Ax hands which can definitely be valuebetting this river.

Posted over 1 year ago

snarble5

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1685 posts
Joined 07/2010

Folding to the 4 bet seems ridiculous vs a reg IMO. I think I like a flop c/r though. As played, I guess c/f > c/r > c/c.

Posted over 1 year ago

Foukus

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288 posts
Joined 01/2009

Folding to the 4 bet seems ridiculous vs a reg IMO. I think I like a flop c/r though. As played, I guess c/f > c/r > c/c.



Well I think folding is definitely better than calling the 4bet when we are pretty much readless. Shoving is option too if we think he'll bluff enough. Though KQo is not best hand for 5bet shoving.

Why would you c-r the flop? That's just the kind of flop that hits our perceived 4bet calling range hard from villains point of view. Because of this, his bet-calling range probably crushes ours and we can't have too many bluffs here. Check-raising is basically turning our hand face-up so villain can play perfectly against us.

Posted over 1 year ago

marco

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690 posts
Joined 08/2010

Folding to the 4 bet seems ridiculous vs a reg IMO. I think I like a flop c/r though. As played, I guess c/f > c/r > c/c.




what does a x/r accomplish? are we sure we want to stack off here?

his range seems inherently polarized, but a x/r is for thin'ish value, right?

Posted over 1 year ago

marco

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690 posts
Joined 08/2010

Folding to the 4 bet seems ridiculous vs a reg IMO.



given the sizing in this pot, i can see how calling is ok. But the tiny spr really kills the playability here, so we have to be x/jamming with king high a high percentage of the time.

But do you generally call here if the 4bet is to 21bbs at 100bbs deep? Isn't it very hard to manuvre, given the spr. Are you x/f'ing on XXX fllops? At 200bbs and a good read, we can treat it like a 3bet pot. 100x, I don't see how we can out play our opponent.

Also, if our opponent sees us x/jam a king high hand, our FE will shrink in future pots as our ranges look terribly wide.

IDK, maybe i'm a nit. It seems hard to win here. King high, OOP, tiny SPR, w/o initiative.

Posted over 1 year ago

chrisanagno

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175 posts
Joined 09/2010

my thoughts on this..
preflop:i guess i can see a bluff 5bet shove and i think KQs is the ideal hand for this..it blocks lots of his Kx,Qx combos(KK,QQ,AK,AQ) and we have the 2ond best suited connector.he 4bets 13% so far which means he has some bluffs given my 3bet range is around 25%.But i dont think flating given the pot odds is wrong as well.
flop:i cant see any merit in x/r actually if we get it in we are always in bad shape.also it would be bad in a mathemaical aspect to x/r jam into a 25$ flop cbet..so flating and maybe trapping villain seems like the correct way to me.
turn:he def checks back some strong hands,maybe some draws and maybe he is giving up on some bluffs
river:i think turning it into bluff is the best here althought we will get called sometimes.our range for shoving river becomes very strong and a thinking player can fold 2p here..given the stacks its has to work less than half times...

Posted over 1 year ago

chrisanagno

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175 posts
Joined 09/2010

if u had AQ how would u play this?(assuming u flat the flop 4bet)

Posted over 1 year ago

Foukus

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288 posts
Joined 01/2009

my thoughts on this..
preflop:i guess i can see a bluff 5bet shove and i think KQs is the ideal hand for this..it blocks lots of his Kx,Qx combos(KK,QQ,AK,AQ) and we have the 2ond best suited connector.he 4bets 13% so far which means he has some bluffs given my 3bet range is around 25%.But i dont think flating given the pot odds is wrong as well.



Yeah, we can probably get right pot odds to call, but it doesn't mean it's the best play. We have to definitely consider post-flop playability in spots like these.

river:i think turning it into bluff is the best here althought we will get called sometimes.our range for shoving river becomes very strong and a thinking player can fold 2p here..given the stacks its has to work less than half times...



I think we will get called most of the times instead of sometimes. What 2p he can fold? Only hand which basically beats his most probable 2p here is KT and slowplayed AA. That's really narrow range and I think pretty much no one at these stakes is capable of folding 2p + I think it's bad play in villains point of view.

Posted over 1 year ago

chrisanagno

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175 posts
Joined 09/2010




I think we will get called most of the times instead of sometimes. What 2p he can fold? Only hand which basically beats his most probable 2p here is KT and slowplayed AA. That's really narrow range and I think pretty much no one at these stakes is capable of folding 2p + I think it's bad play in villains point of view.



yeah basically i think this bluff EV depends on villain level..a good villain can understand that we dont have the widest range ever but we basically never have bluffs because ppl dont turn 1pair hands into bluffs quite often..also he can have some AT,AQ hands there that fold to a jam

Posted over 1 year ago

Foukus

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288 posts
Joined 01/2009

yeah basically i think this bluff EV depends on villain level..a good villain can understand that we dont have the widest range ever but we basically never have bluffs because ppl dont turn 1pair hands into bluffs quite often..also he can have some AT,AQ hands there that fold to a jam



Shoving is way too FPSsy here. For him to ever fold AQ in spot like this we need to be at least 200bb deep or something. I wouldn't include all AT combos in his 4betting range. Usually villains are more polarized than that (depends on how much you've been 3betting though).

Posted over 1 year ago




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