Heads Up NL Poker Forums

Hey all

Villain here were was ABC and running me over. I know that sounds weird, but he always seemed to have it, or his timing was perfect.

anyway, kinda early on, he seems to be passive and hitting cards, and this is his first DL. I'm really not sure what to make of his range with his line.

His BB stats were
call 26%
3b 16%
fold vs cbet, 50%, 0% on turn
x/r 8% - was a bluff


Hero (BTN/SB): $50.00
BB: $118.05

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is BTN/SB with 8 J
Hero raises to $1.50, BB calls $1

Flop: ($3.00) 4 9 J (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $2.25, BB calls $2.25

Turn: ($7.50) K (2 players)
BB bets $4.60, Hero calls $4.60

River: ($16.70) T (2 players)
BB bets $6.80, [color=red]Hero ....?

I don't like calling here, is raising a decent option? His line doesn't make much sense with any hand.

Preflop and Flop is obviously fine.

Turn: Villains line is certainly strange! But let´s take a look at what hands make most sense for villain to take this line. I don't expect someone to c/c this kind of flop with pure air to float pop, especially not if he´s ABC. Given the Kd completes pretty much any draw (QT, diamonds, KT, etc), it´s hard for villain to have air. On the other hand this is a card which is pretty scary and in general hits the flop cbetter better than the caller. So villain should expect you to bet this card pretty frequently when checked to (as a (semi)bluff and also for value). So I think villain is likely to check the top part of his range (strong flushes) and because the Kd hits your perceived range to c/f the bottom of his flop calling range (9x w/o draw, 3rd pairs).
So villains range for c/c flop - lead turn probably mainly consists of mediocre to strong hands (small flushes, straights, two pairs, AJ, QJ, KQ) without a broadway diamond, because he wants to protect these hands. Given he bets fairly small I´d heavily discount small flushes and straights, but it´s not impossible for him to have these hands. Against this range we could argue for just folding the turn! Given you have the Jd and villain can have air occasionally, calling might be still fine though. Without the Jd it´s for sure a fold. Keep in mind when a reg takes a weird/strange line it´s most often for value.

River: I can definitely see why you consider raising as a bluff and I agree that we can´t really call here! Villains range is likely to be capped, because he´s probably not playing a strong flush this way, especially not with this betsizing. Given his sizing and line villains most likely hands are Kx, two pairs and Qx I think. The problem with raising the river is, I think a lot of people level themselves into calling a raise after underbetting the river, because they think they induced a bluff by underbetting. So I would actually like a raise more if he would have bet a lil bigger (50-60%pot). So I´d probably just fold river as played.

That said, another way to bluff here might be to turn your hand into a bluff on the turn. If you agree with the range I gave him for leading the turn, he´s probably not strong enough to call a turn raise and a rivershove and you should have some equity with the Jd.

That said, another way to bluff here might be to turn your hand into a bluff on the turn. If you agree with the range I gave him for leading the turn, he´s probably not strong enough to call a turn raise and a rivershove and you should have some equity with the Jd.

I did consider this briefly in game, but came to the conclusion that my hand was too strong to start bluffing with. IDK, tho. I actually did follow through and bluff raise here, but I don't think I like it.

yeahh, this is the dilemma between game theorie and actual play. like D3rJack said his range seems to be capped to hands he should fold to your shoving range. But I see a lot of people DL for something like protection or "I get money from their draws" but they'll never fold. His betsizing on river makes your shove even better, since his range gets a lot weaker imo, but players don't seem to bother.
Lots of guys bet low for what they understand as a blocking bet, but call any shove no matter what.

I would just muck the Turn.

Lots of guys bet low for what they understand as a blocking bet, but call any shove no matter what.
.

This is something i am seeing, but i can't make sense of it. Do they really expect to induce bluffs from marginal showdown hands ( at $50nl ) ??? I don't think so, i think they just click call without thinking.

But for the sake of discussion....

...when i see this, I think it must mean they don't think things thro, or don't understand hand ranges? Is there anything else i can deduce when this happens?

For instance, if someone underbets a marginal made hand on a wet board ( say bottom 2 pair here, idiot end str8, etc), then calls a big raise, were they trying to induce? or figured that our raise was too polarized, or what?

In what context does bet/ calling vs an 'unknown' player make sense in their spot? Does it ever make sense, or is it just that they are just on level 1? ( i think this is the case, do you)

The issue i see is, my air range on the river is solely AdXo, and the rest of my range is all made hands. So for him to bet / call, I would need to be turning JX, 9T, & 9X into a bluff, but we have no history for him to think i would take that unusual line. I clearly rep Qx+, IMO. Or does he think i would raise his turn bet with all my flushes, therefore, i'm fos on the river too much?

In what context does bet/ calling vs an 'unknown' player make sense in their spot? Does it ever make sense, or is it just that they are just on level 1? ( i think this is the case, do you)

well, even worse than than level one, since he's actually thinking, but total nonsense.
He will level himself into calling in so many speculative spots that you should be happy to valuetown him.
Best way to play him is to go for one and done with air, and valuebet really thin.

Does his line ever make sense?
-vs. unknown not at all
-vs. guy with lots of history and leveling going on not either. He donks Turn, cause he's afraid to not get any value from draws etc. if oponent cbacks. But does a guy that check back the turn ever bluffraise the river??? a "bluffraiser" is more likely to either continue aggression when check to on turn, or will raise the turn already.

I would say a c/c c/c underbetdonk/call line would make sense vs hyper aggro guys and should be a play to consider, but certainly not this line.

Does that make sense? I'm not the best writer.

Actually I think I like turn raise in that spot. You don't risk that much because villain donked so small, you get the initiative (and often free checkdown), you'll rep the flush pretty credibly and you can even make him fold some equity. I wouldn't say that raising on the turn is turning our hand into a bluff, more like turning a made hand into a semibluff. Raise-fold to like 12 should be more than enough.

Fold turn. ABC players don't turn 3rd pairs into bluffs by donking the turn, and fit/fold so is not calling flop with air. He simply has nothing in his range to bluff with. And pretty much every hand that improved on the K has you beat.

He's not running you over, he's just a nit on a heater. You "beat heaters" by volume (you'll get just as many of them over time), not by spewing.

He's not running you over, he's just a nit on a heater. You "beat heaters" by volume (you'll get just as many of them over time), not by spewing.

lol, I spew so much vs in these situations. Not sure why tho.