# Poker Video: No Limit Hold'Em by FoxwoodsFiend (High Stakes)

## Mentor: BalugaWhale and FoxwoodsFiend (#1) - 4-tabling HU Review

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### Mentor: BalugaWhale and FoxwoodsFiend (#1) - 4-tabling HU Review by FoxwoodsFiend, BalugaWhale

FoxwoodsFiend and BalugaWhale review a 4-tabling session where our white whale took on imfromsweden.

DeucesCracked coaches Mentor their students in these coaching videos.

### Video Details

• Game:
• Stakes: High Stakes
• 56 minutes long
• Posted almost 2 years ago

## Comments for Mentor: BalugaWhale and FoxwoodsFiend (#1) - 4-tabling HU Review

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#### Prologion

2079 posts
Joined 03/2010

his number of bluffs only determines whether its a non-fold or not. it doesn't help us choose between calling and raising.

idk, tbh at least the example of ! Ass get to jigglin" seems to be logical and very correct to me.

#### Ass Get to Jigglin

4273 posts
Joined 10/2010

his number of bluffs only determines whether its a non-fold or not. it doesn't help us choose between calling and raising.

ahh ok, yeah that makes sense now, thanks.

#### terp

1996 posts
Joined 01/2008

what you said AGTJ is a very clear way of explaining the decision - sometimes we have a -ev call but a +ev shove with a bluffcatcher.

there are three variables here. think of them as a+b+c=100

a={nutted value hands}
b={thin value hands}
c={bluffs}

value range={a,b}

he should be bet/calling with {a} and bet/folding {b,c}. i think we can see that if a:b is constant, as c ---> 100, EV(call)-EV(shove) changes, including possibly such that our action will change.

if a>our hand>b, EV(shove)<EV(call), since we are putting more money in and always losing.

#### Ass Get to Jigglin

4273 posts
Joined 10/2010

idk, tbh at least the example of ! Ass get to jigglin" seems to be logical and very correct to me.

hmm, actually yeah I think Andrews response is just partially correct. To continue with my example, if the guy had 12 bluff combos and 20 value combos we can call getting 2-1. But that doesn't mean raising isn't more profitable. If he folds say 17 of his value combos, then raising is more profitable. So if he has enough bluff combos such that we can call, then the bluff combos don't help us choose whether to raise or call - the number of value combos he folds determines that and Andrew is correct in saying that the number of bluffs only determines if it's a non-fold (call or raise).

But if he doesn't have enough bluff combos such that we can call, then whether or not to raise or fold depends on how many bluffs he has AND how many value combos he folds (illustrated by my original example where we can shove when he has 8 bluffs in his range, but can't when he doesn't). So in my first example, the number of bluffs he has doesn't determine whether or not it's a non-fold, it determines whether or not it's a fold or a raise, and the number of value combos he folds combined with the number of bluffs he has determines whether or not we raise (we can't call getting 2-1 so fold or raise are our only options). So in my example if he only had 4 bluffs instead of 8, but folds 9 value combos instead of 7, than shoving for pot is +EV because he folds 13/24=54% of the time. If he had 9 bluffs and only folded 6 value combos, we still can't call getting 2-1 but we can shove making him fold 9/29=51% of the time.

Andrew - if you still disagree, can you show where your disagreement is with this analysis, perhaps using my example or something similar to illustrate?

#### Ass Get to Jigglin

4273 posts
Joined 10/2010

what you said AGTJ is a very clear way of explaining the decision - sometimes we have a -ev call but a +ev shove with a bluffcatcher.

there are three variables here. think of them as a+b+c=100

a={nutted value hands}
b={thin value hands}
c={bluffs}

value range={a,b}

he should be bet/calling with {a} and bet/folding {b,c}. i think we can see that if a:b is constant, as c ---> 100, EV(call)-EV(shove) changes, including possibly such that our action will change.

if a>our hand>b, EV(shove)<EV(call), since we are putting more money in and always losing.

didn't see this post before I made my last post. yeah, this makes sense.

EV(call)-EV(shove)

is this EV(call) minus EV(shove)? or you're just saying the EV of both actions changes as c increases?

#### terp

1996 posts
Joined 01/2008

that's just a random equation comparing them. could have done it the other way, too.

if EV(call)-EV(shove) > 0, then calling > shoving

#### Ass Get to Jigglin

4273 posts
Joined 10/2010

that's just a random equation comparing them. could have done it the other way, too.

if EV(call)-EV(shove) > 0, then calling > shoving

ahh ok got it, thanks terp

#### Imfromsweden

14 posts
Joined 08/2010

gg man :-) Just gotta ask, why are you 3betting 44 here, as opposed to flatting? I think life will become hell if you 3bet tbh, especially this deep, when you can't just shove if I 4bet

#### BalugaWhale

997 posts
Joined 01/2008

gg man :-) Just gotta ask, why are you 3betting 44 here, as opposed to flatting? I think life will become hell if you 3bet tbh, especially this deep, when you can't just shove if I 4bet

in retrospect i think i should've shoved anyway

#### Imfromsweden

14 posts
Joined 08/2010

ok. Not sure if I agree that it's a good default plan to 3bet/ship small pairs 150bb+ deep, but haven't done the math,

#### snarble5

1685 posts
Joined 07/2010

Not sure how to create a timelink, but at 00:1:40. We have AA on 964s Qss Qo. How do you think he plays draws here OTT? I think there is some merit to c/c the river.

#### kimchisama

22 posts
Joined 01/2011

thanks for the vid !

#### BalugaWhale

997 posts
Joined 01/2008

Not sure how to create a timelink, but at 00:1:40. We have AA on 964s Qss Qo. How do you think he plays draws here OTT? I think there is some merit to c/c the river.

im pretty sure he's jamming his draws somewhere earlier most of the time, and he's hero calling all the time.

Andrew

#### MrMahone

11 posts
Joined 12/2009

I think you could call the river with the J8s on the JTAQ board since he just got caught overbetting on the other table and it seems your hand range is capped and therefor I would expect him to valuebet as an overbet as well with the K and probably also for balancing reason(since he seems to bluff often in such spots). Therefor I would really love to look up his "normal" sized bets in this certain spot with this previous history.

What do you think about that?

#### BalugaWhale

997 posts
Joined 01/2008

I think you could call the river with the J8s on the JTAQ board since he just got caught overbetting on the other table and it seems your hand range is capped and therefor I would expect him to valuebet as an overbet as well with the K and probably also for balancing reason(since he seems to bluff often in such spots). Therefor I would really love to look up his "normal" sized bets in this certain spot with this previous history.

What do you think about that?

I think its way more likely that he's choosing that size with a thin value hand like AT or QJ than a pure bluff, but I could obv be wrong.

Andrew

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