danndann1
298 posts
Joined 05/2008
Time Link to 00:40:38
if
1) he doesnt have Ahi in his turn ck/calling range
2) he folds all but q+
then you have to bet like 290 to break even on ur bluffs (which is kinda lol obv) because 71% of the time he wouldnt fold:
ProPokerTools Hold'em Simulation
498 trials (Exhaustive)
board: 6
6
q
9
2
jj 28.92% (144 wins, 0 ties)
kq, qj, qt, q8, A6, K6s, 66, 56s, 67s, 68s, 77, 88, A9 71.08% (354 wins, 0 ties)
pls correct me if im wrong
Posted about 2 years ago
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KRANTZ
3106 posts
Joined 07/2007
When you guys discuss villain's flopraise with KQhh on Ah42, you say you don't like it.
What about when your opponent (hero in this case) is aggro, meaning he will doublebarrel a lot. Would you call the turn again with Khigh?
If not, doesn't raising the flop become pretty good then? it prevents from getting bluffed on the turn, and even if hero decides to call with a pair or a PP, KQ has a lot out outs including 2backdoors + it opens up value raises with Ax. It just makes it harder for hero to get to showdown with weak hands.
you could call the turn again with king high. your reasons for why raising KQ could be good are valid, they just need to be a part of an overall gameplan that includes value raising Ax
Posted about 2 years ago
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KRANTZ
3106 posts
Joined 07/2007
Cool video!
Got a question.
Time: 18.00
Hand: Q2s
Do you think there is any merit in CR shoving the turn?
When you CC the turn you obv. got some kind of showdown value. Imo pretty
weigted towards Qx. It seems ambitious for villain to try bluffing you of, of Qx with
the KQ/96s in mind. IE: I would expect that he probably expect you to in general call pretty light.
Based on all the draws villain can have in he's range + all the rivercards where
we will be forced to maybe fold the best hand.
+ The assumption that villain not necessarily is going to shove non-scare river cards
with he's bluffs.
I am considering whether a turn CR shove is better than a turn CC
It is of course very dependent on how often we expect villain to follow through
with he's bluffs on "safe" river-cards.
- And maybe I am just a bit more pessimictic with regards to villains river-bluff tendencies
than you
Would appreciate to hear your thougts about this.
would be much better to c/c turn and c/c any river over c/r-ing the turn, he's never ever going to call us with a worse hand than ours
Posted about 2 years ago
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KRANTZ
3106 posts
Joined 07/2007
Can you take the same lines in a micro/lower stakes?
Can you sweat a micro/ lower stake game for us?
Im assuming most viewers arent playing 2k$ pots.
the lines you take depend on the player you are playing against. i'd watch pr1nnyraiding 1 and 2 and try to internalize the principles we talk about throughout these series, rather than mirroring the exact lines we take when you're watching us play. if you can understand what to think about and how to think about it while you're playing, it's irrelevant whether you're playing a $10 pot, a $350 pot, a $1k pot or a $40k pot. you just adopt the line and the strategy that will make you the most money against the opponent you are currently up against (or the strategy that will make you lose the least, if you find yourself up against someone really great)
Posted about 2 years ago
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Nikiforos86
14 posts
Joined 09/2010
WiltOnTilt
2402 posts
Joined 10/2007
T1 the hand on the all spades board - would we go c/r, bet turn, bet river with the Q high flush for value?
Also, how many suited Kx are we calling with oop?
yes i'd prob value bet river with Q high flush
as for suited kings, depending on how villani is playing post, could def defend/3bet every single one. the guy was never 2 barreling and that really opens up your options oop
Posted about 2 years ago
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WiltOnTilt
2402 posts
Joined 10/2007
T1 with the K3dd- you wouln't be cbetting AK/AQ on that board vs that guy?
defintely not always, he wasn't really the type that is putting me in that many tough decisions so I think i can play pretty well by c/c and expecting him to shut down a lot. vs others who are going to be more balanced in their flop betting game in that spot, might prefer to just use my hand as a semibluff
Posted about 2 years ago
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WiltOnTilt
2402 posts
Joined 10/2007
When the Q hits I immediately thought he will show up alot with a Q here and check back. What do you think about leading out the river, repping Ax and let a Q fold. Or do you think that early in the match any Qx will call you down a lot for information aswell? Or did you just checked, because you thought he can still have Ax here a lot of times?
betting is good for the reasons you say. Also i think in the video we talked about why betting the river might be better vs some (so they dont know you're capable of it). Checking is good for getting information. depending on which you view as more important at various parts of the match
Posted about 2 years ago
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WiltOnTilt
2402 posts
Joined 10/2007
T2 - what bluffs do you rep when you overbet there? Does the overbet in that spot allow you to rep more bluffs than a normal sized bet?
i dont know if i represent more bluffs by overbetting necessarily, but his range is capped/face up and my turn range can have tons of busted semibluffs there (or pure bluffs)
Posted about 2 years ago
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WiltOnTilt
2402 posts
Joined 10/2007
if
1) he doesnt have Ahi in his turn ck/calling range
2) he folds all but q+
then you have to bet like 290 to break even on ur bluffs (which is kinda lol obv) because 71% of the time he wouldnt fold:
ProPokerTools Hold'em Simulation
498 trials (Exhaustive)
board: 6
6
q
9
2
jj 28.92% (144 wins, 0 ties)
kq, qj, qt, q8, A6, K6s, 66, 56s, 67s, 68s, 77, 88, A9 71.08% (354 wins, 0 ties)
pls correct me if im wrong
Yea him calling the turn with A high is definitely the tipping point on whether or not we should bluff the river
Posted about 2 years ago
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Ass Get to Jigglin
4273 posts
Joined 10/2010
yes i'd prob value bet river with Q high flush
then aren't we assuming he will call with the Jhigh flush and worse a decent amount of the time? If so, then doesn't that make it a bad river bluff? Or is it one of those spots where he may fold Jhigh flushes and worse often enough to make it a good bluff, but also call enough to make a Q high flush a value bet?
Posted about 2 years ago
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WiltOnTilt
2402 posts
Joined 10/2007
nemmad
117 posts
Joined 07/2009
Time Link to 00:18:49
if the river was a 2s, I feel like it becomes a little bit a leveling spot (maybe I just level my self). Because when we bet flop, check-call turn, our range becomes pretty obvious. I dont say that c/c turn is bad. But on the river is always a hard spot except for a K,T,J,9,Q river. Because we know that we play our hand pretty obvious and he also knows that. So the question is: does he 2 barrel bluf with air, because we know, he knows that our range is faced up to not very strong hands, so he expect us to call us only turn and fold river. So we will call the river becauase he thinks we fold it. Hopefully I made my point clear. It's just always hard to know what is best in these spots. If we don't have a lot of 3bet history where he flats our 3bets (because the session just started), but we know he is aggressive it becomes easier to call. Same if he is not very aggressive, maybe we should fold a 2s river.
your thoughts?
Posted about 1 year ago
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WiltOnTilt
2402 posts
Joined 10/2007
if the river was a 2s, I feel like it becomes a little bit a leveling spot (maybe I just level my self). Because when we bet flop, check-call turn, our range becomes pretty obvious. I dont say that c/c turn is bad. But on the river is always a hard spot except for a K,T,J,9,Q river. Because we know that we play our hand pretty obvious and he also knows that. So the question is: does he 2 barrel bluf with air, because we know, he knows that our range is faced up to not very strong hands, so he expect us to call us only turn and fold river. So we will call the river becauase he thinks we fold it. Hopefully I made my point clear. It's just always hard to know what is best in these spots. If we don't have a lot of 3bet history where he flats our 3bets (because the session just started), but we know he is aggressive it becomes easier to call. Same if he is not very aggressive, maybe we should fold a 2s river.
your thoughts?
I mostly agree. If the river is 2s then he has many more air hands he could bluff with, and Q2 would be toward the top of our range here, so probably would be less inclined to fold. We can c/c the turn with many worse bluff catchers too (maybe even A high) but obviously it becomes very difficult if we have absolutely no read on how aggro he is or what he perceives our turn c/c range to be.
Posted about 1 year ago
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nemmad
117 posts
Joined 07/2009
yeah Q2 would be towards the top of our range, but our range is actually all the same strength. Because I don't think he will thin valuebet AT on turn without reads? (forgot to mention Q2 has some blocker effect, so it's a better hand)
But tnx for answer on my question
Posted about 1 year ago
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