---

Poker Video: No Limit Hold'Em by WiltOnTilt (Mid Stakes)

digeng, good post. I agree with most of what you wrote. Some other things you can consider though:

1) how many better hands he bluffs the turn with

2) how we want to balance our turn checkraising range

3) how he views our turn c/c'ing range in the future.

it could definitely be that #1 is slim to none, but it could be that it's high.

Overall I'm not convinced that either c/c, c/c is better but I definitely can see where you're coming from. I think being capable of doing both is probably good. There are lots of factors that are very hard to quantify that could sway the correct answer.

Another argument for c/c c/c is at least you get to showdown and see what he's capable of defending preflop and floating on the flop with and you get to see if he's going to fire the river a lot after I c/c the turn...so your suggestion does gain us more info in general about how he thinks... but I would puke my guts out if he had like K7 and bet the turn with the intention of trying to get me off Ax on the river and I called down.

That said, the extra info we gain by c/c'ing the turn and river might make it worth it, so you could be right.

WoT

Why are you outing fish? (eg. titantom) Couldn't you replace the villain's name with "villain"?

Why are you outing fish? (eg. titantom) Couldn't you replace the villain's name with "villain"?

we'll do this for future hand history episodes, but i've already recorded ep 4 and we didn't change any screen names.

In the A2s hand you didn't explain your river bet size. Did your reasoning include ensuring you could fold to a raise because it would be almost impossible for him to bluff? If so, wouldn't 2/3 the pot do the same trick. Also, you said it would cost $3k to call, when it would only cost you ~$2,400, giving you even better pot odds.

In the A2s hand you didn't explain your river bet size. Did your reasoning include ensuring you could fold to a raise because it would be almost impossible for him to bluff? If so, wouldn't 2/3 the pot do the same trick. Also, you said it would cost $3k to call, when it would only cost you ~$2,400, giving you even better pot odds.

yea basically i felt like it was the most i was going to get from worse hands and also allows me to fold if shoved on.

Time Link to 00:51:22

Not seen his hand here, but I really hate his raise on this river if its a bluff. (would really like a thin value raise with AT+ here)

Just because he is repping nothing. Most drawss/air would bet the turn so he really doesnt have much in terms of backdoor hands, except maybe a weak Kxs. Becfause of that its fairly obvious he eitehr has a poorly played air hand or a hand like 9x which decided to turn his hand into bluff.

The only bet size I really like from him is a shove from him. We never really have a flush beacuse we would bet a FD on turn, so the best hand we have is a set/2pair which may just c/r the flop or double barrel donk,. Not only that he can have a few Kxs and its really hard to make a big calldown on the river with a set or 2 pair.

Thoughts WoT?


Lol just noticed you 3bet! Thats pretty sick if you think he wont 4bet bluff or wont calldown with 2pair (which IMO he should call given you really shouldnt have any flushes in your range just because you would DB more flush draws than check them on the turn.)

Time Link to 00:57:40

What do we think about x/c on the river here instead of b/f? This allows him to possibly bet missed draws that would have just folded to our bet. Do you think he would check back top pair here? We obviously like betting if he is going to call w/ AQ or whatever, but he might bet that on the river. And if he bets something like 3400 like you did, aren't we paying the same price but a) getting missed draws to bet and b) getting to see his hand for future info.

I guess it all comes down to whether or not we think he would bet top pair only here if checked to because if he wouldn't bet it, then we HAVE to bet.

Thoughts?

In the A2s hand you didn't explain your river bet size. Did your reasoning include ensuring you could fold to a raise because it would be almost impossible for him to bluff? If so, wouldn't 2/3 the pot do the same trick. Also, you said it would cost $3k to call, when it would only cost you ~$2,400, giving you even better pot odds.

Where are you getting $2,400? Wilt has $3118.75 left.

Time Link to 00:22:43

My standard is to check back the flop here as well, but I also find myself in the awkward predicament of having to call 2 full PSB's (which is wrong every time) when villain is slowplaying because now I have shown weakness and I question whether he might be bluffing. However, if we bet the flop and villain c/r'es, we're obviously beat, and if he check/calls and the turn is check/check and he bets the river, we are also clearly beat IMO on this board texture. So it seems betting the flop makes this hand easier to play given what he has, and I agree that it is easier in general vs. his whole range.

Time Link to 00:41:59

Just to point out that both of you noted that he would be continuing with 6 8 and 8 10 here but neglected to mention J 10 which is also a double bellybuster and needs to be considered accordingly.

Lol just noticed you 3bet! Thats pretty sick if you think he wont 4bet bluff or wont calldown with 2pair (which IMO he should call given you really shouldnt have any flushes in your range just because you would DB more flush draws than check them on the turn.)

Yeah I would like to see some more thoughts on this. Your river 3bet just doesn't seem believable to me?

I mean, he'd have to assume you have exactly what - KXss or AXss that for some reason didn't bet the turn this deep? Really?

If he raises a hand for value, I think he needs to call the 3bet...

Lol just noticed you 3bet! Thats pretty sick if you think he wont 4bet bluff or wont calldown with 2pair (which IMO he should call given you really shouldnt have any flushes in your range just because you would DB more flush draws than check them on the turn.)

Yeah I would like to see some more thoughts on this. Your river 3bet just doesn't seem believable to me?

I mean, he'd have to assume you have exactly what - KXss or AXss that for some reason didn't bet the turn this deep? Really?

If he raises a hand for value, I think he needs to call the 3bet...

Why would Kxss or Axss bet the turn? Just because it's pair + draw? Nah man, think about what sort of range he peels the flop with and think about what it looks like I have.

When he calls the flop and checks behind the turn, does it look like he's folding to my river lead? def not right? I don't rep much on the flop, he checks the turn indicating showdown value, and now I bet the river... it does not look like he's folding. If it doesn't look like he's folding, my river bet should be for value, depending on how thinly he thinks I can value bet, it becomes easy for him to raise me off thin value.

You heard the part where I was donk betting this hand to induce action because I cannot rep much, right? What makes you think that I would always bet the turn with a flush draw if that's the case? The same reason I checked the A8 on the turn would be the same reason I would also check a flush draw on the turn a lot, either to c/c or c/r and pick off floats depending on the exact turn card and the exact 2 spades I have.

More importantly though, it's much more likely that I have a flush than he does, and it's a tough spot with 2pair and he can turn some showdownable hands into bluff. My 3bet size does not look like air at all, especially given the raise size.

hope that helps!

WoT

Ok that makes some sense. Are you worried villain might think the way I (or NoWayFolding) did?

What's the worst flush you'd 3bet river with?

(Just remembered I hadn't responded to this)

You heard the part where I was donk betting this hand to induce action because I cannot rep much, right? What makes you think that I would always bet the turn with a flush draw if that's the case? The same reason I checked the A8 on the turn would be the same reason I would also check a flush draw on the turn a lot, either to c/c or c/r and pick off floats depending on the exact turn card and the exact 2 spades I have.

More importantly though, it's much more likely that I have a flush than he does, and it's a tough spot with 2pair and he can turn some showdownable hands into bluff. My 3bet size does not look like air at all, especially given the raise size.

hope that helps!

WoT

Didnt think about this, your comments here are almost as usefull as the video itself
(also liked the other ones, especially the first one about c/c c/c vs crai)

Nice vid overall also.