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Poker Video: No Limit Hold'Em by WiltOnTilt (Mid Stakes)

The 34ss hand seems amazing to me. I can never make that kind of float/play/calldown. Guess i need more hands/heart.

with that guys barreling frequency though, aaron's definitely right that 3-betting's the play if i wanna continue there.

but then on the turn hey we have a pair and his barreling frequency is so high that it's a pretty easy call.

the reason i called the river was his bet size more than anything, if he bets half pot i fold there and don't think twice about it (he was one of the bluff big valuebet small guys, goofy goofy)

ya for sure. seems pretty terribel and HUNL but i think sharkscope has only included results form mtts for like 6 months and those mtt guys play on ever site so i am pretty sure the guy has scores on various sites.

and LOL at that hand

On the 43o hand where you snapped off T8o river bluff...

That hand just goes to show you how bad floating is. You lose that pot every time you don't turn a pair.

On the 43o hand where you snapped off T8o river bluff...

That hand just goes to show you how bad floating is. You lose that pot every time you don't turn a pair.

well yeah i already said as much, so did aaron, and it was pretty obvious to everyone else but thanks for pointing it out.

unfortunately i don't play perfectly at all times.

well yeah i already said as much, so did aaron, and it was pretty obvious to everyone else but thanks for pointing it out.

lol. nice retort

nh's.

well yeah i already said as much, so did aaron, and it was pretty obvious to everyone else but thanks for pointing it out.

unfortunately i don't play perfectly at all times.

someone who is this sensative to a "critical" post.. must tilt like a mofo.. eightfold path.. breath

Wasn't attempting to attack or criticize. Apologies for unnecessarily stirring anything up. Cheers.

In the 3 bet pot where you had 8h5h on a 8cAsKh4h board can you explain why you decided to check/raise vs check/call? This seems like a situation where no better hands will fold and no worse hands will call, so why not just check/call?

part of the reason we have to checkraise here against good players is because they wont play straight up to our c/c on the turn. so it's quite conceivable that if we c/c the turn we're going to get bluffed a fair amount on the river when we are best.

there's a concept i've talked a bit about with jk3a before and it's where we are certain a turn checkraise all in is profitable but we're uncertain about the guys river bluffing frequency. if we think he bluffs the river a ton, then c/c, c/c would be better. if we think he doesn't bluff the river much, then we can c/c and c/f a lot. however, if we aren't sure then we potentially make a big mistake on the river (either by folding incorrectly or calling incorrectly) whereas if we jam the turn it's almost certainly +EV.

Also, I don't think it's completely outside the realm of possibility for him to turn some slightly better hands into bluffs on the turn if he thinks my turn c/c'ing range isn't strong enough to c/c rivers too...but i agree there aren't tons of better hands that are making a "standard" turn bet/fold.

WoT

Regarding the first hand T8o where you suggest to overbetshove the river: I am a little confused with these spots I remember watching a vid here on DC where someone made a call in this spot (I think it was NoahSD)because villain would bet less with the "flush" (don't remember exactly) and his hand looked like marginal SDV so he expected a smallish valuebet in case villain had a big hand.

In the A8 hands where you say the plan is to check call the turn. Say he does bet and you can check call. What do you think his action will be on the river and how will you react to it ? In other words, what is your river line ?

Awesome series btw, love the analysis looking forward to the rest.

I agree that CRAI turn is +EV, but I'm not convinced that it is more +EV than just taking the check/call turn and check/call river line *regardless* of villain's river bluff frequencies.

For example,

Case 1:
villain value bets turn and river with a real hand and we do not improve. -> we lose all our chips whether we CRAI turn or check/call down.

Case 2:
villain value bets turn and river with a real hand and we do improve. -> overwhelming majority of the time we win the hand.

Case 3:
villain value bets turn but checks back river and river does not improve our hand. -> we lose less chips taking the check/call down line.

case 4:
villain value bets turn but checks back river and river does improve our hand. -> we win less chips taking the check/call down line.

Case 5:
villain bluffs turn and bluffs river. -> we win more chips taking the check/call down line.


Since most of the time we do not improve our hand on the river, case 3 occurs more often than case 4 so if villain is always checking back river we lose less money taking the check/call down line vs CRAI. And it's easy to see that cases 1,2,5 taken as a whole makes more money than taking the CRAI line. Given the above I think we actually need villain to be bet/folding better hands a decent portion of the time for a CRAI to be better than just calling down, but I don't think the vast majority of players are bet/folding turn with better hands often enough for this to be true.

Time Link to 00:52:57

Wow, this didn't even come to mind when I was watching this hand, I was pretty convinced from watching your commentary you would call him here and pick off those hands he turned into bluffs. This line however seems much more effective since now you do fold out better in the two pairs he randomly shows up with and if you get shoved on here you can be fairly certain he has a flush. That was a head explosion moment.

Regarding the first hand T8o where you suggest to overbetshove the river: I am a little confused with these spots I remember watching a vid here on DC where someone made a call in this spot (I think it was NoahSD)because villain would bet less with the "flush" (don't remember exactly) and his hand looked like marginal SDV so he expected a smallish valuebet in case villain had a big hand.

yea it just depends on what level we think the guy is on. Some guys view big bets as big hands, other guys view big bets as "i want you to fold". One thing I try to do in a HU match is set the dynamic one way or another and then play off it later. So we would want to overbet for thin value and then allow that to help us to overbet bluff later, or show lots of thin value small bets and then be able to thin value bluff later...etc.

One thing is almost universally true though, and that is when there's no dynamic for overbetting, the small bet sizes will rarely make people fold...so in other words, spots come up where if we think we want to bluff, it's still better to overbet because we have to give them a chance at folding their marginal hands, whereas if we try to make a more balanced bet size it's just going to get called every time.

hope that helps
WoT

In the A8 hands where you say the plan is to check call the turn. Say he does bet and you can check call. What do you think his action will be on the river and how will you react to it ? In other words, what is your river line ?

Awesome series btw, love the analysis looking forward to the rest.

I'd go ahead and c/c both streets...because i think he can float and bluff this way and because even if he has a better hand this time, it will protect my future donk bet and turn checks.

Thanks for watching.

WoT