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15 hands or so into the match. I have only 3bet once or twice and it's been for value, though the hands haven't gone to showdown. Villain appears positionally aware and doesn't have any obvious fishy tendencies. This is his first 4bet.

Poker Stars $1/$2 No Limit Hold'em - 2 players - View hand 884195
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

BTN/SB: $200.00
Hero (BB): $293.50

Pre Flop: ($3.00) Hero is BB with A J
BTN/SB raises to $6, Hero raises to $20, BTN/SB raises to $45, Hero calls $25

Flop: ($90.00) A 3 T (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN/SB bets $46, Hero calls $46

Turn: ($182.00) 7 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN/SB bets $109 all in, Hero pukes in his mouth

My question is more preflop and flop play, actually. I think as played turn is a no-brainer call, right?

i mean.. why do you call his 4bet?

i mean.. why do you call his 4bet?

My thought was that I have a medium strength hand that flops ok. I tend to polarize my 5bet range. Guess this hand is an example of why it's better to ship or fold?

Fold to 4bet.... as is, I would fold, if you call what really are you expecting him to show that you have beat? KQ/KJhh?.. other than that this looks like AK/AA is so much of his range here...

He folded to your first two 3bets, you guys have no history. A flat is way better with AJ. Once you do 3b, it is either a jam or a fold almost ALWAYS. The exception would be: hes going to 4b and cb with a lot of air on the flop. In which case you are planning on CRing all in like always.

Flatting sucks because: you just hit a gin flop and turn and you want to check fold! If he is 4betting wide then JAM!!! If its his first 4b (it is) then FOLD.

yah i either fold to the 4 bet or 5 bet bluff shove. and i heavily favor folding unless you two have gotten into a massive leveling war

He folded to your first two 3bets, you guys have no history. A flat is way better with AJ.

I don't agree. 3betting three times in eight big blind hands is history right there - it says you mean to run him over clearly enough. We can 3bet QJ for value by now. AJ is a must 3bet here.

Flatting sucks because: you just hit a gin flop and turn and you want to check fold!

Agreed.

If he is 4betting wide then JAM!!! If its his first 4b (it is) then FOLD.

What what? I have to rein myself in from 5betting 8 highs over the early first 4bet after I've been 3betting a good amount. AJ is a silly obvious 5bet shove.

What what? I have to rein myself in from 5betting 8 highs over the early first 4bet after I've been 3betting a good amount. AJ is a silly obvious 5bet shove.

Agree with your other points.

In terms of AJ being a snap 5bet jam. Its not.
Since most plaeyrs early on are 4betting bluffing or 4betting 99+/AQ+ AJ 8hi in this spot for the most part.

Just depends on what you think your dynamic is.

I don't agree. 3betting three times in eight big blind hands is history right there - it says you mean to run him over clearly enough. We can 3bet QJ for value by now. AJ is a must 3bet here.


What what? I have to rein myself in from 5betting 8 highs over the early first 4bet after I've been 3betting a good amount. AJ is a silly obvious 5bet shove.

Ok, this is a simple problem to fix, and it's something that I see a lot with my students, as well as low stakes players in general. It is this:
You have ASSUMED that two 3bets now mean there is a crazy agressive 4b and 5b dynamic. This is simply not true. Lots of guys are just foldy to 3bets...... Make him PROVE it then adjust.

This applies to both 3betting and 5 betting in this scenario.

Agree with your other points.

In terms of AJ being a snap 5bet jam. Its not.
Since most plaeyrs early on are 4betting bluffing or 4betting 99+/AQ+ AJ 8hi in this spot for the most part.

AJ is better than 8 high. We block some of villain's value combos, then, a lot of AQ and some AA/KK is flatting, and 77 or 88 or AJ or even AT is 4bet calling some of the time.

Then again, the nut 8 high suited has a lot of equity, I don't mind shipping it in either.

Just depends on what you think your dynamic is.

Sure, but very early on dynamic forms up rather quickly, it's a special case.

Anyway, has "first 4bet is always a bluff" turned to "always 4bet for value first" all of a sudden while I wasn't paying attention?

The exception would be: hes going to 4b and cb with a lot of air on the flop. In which case you are planning on CRing all in like always.

Waaat? If he's checking back a lot of his air on the flop, wouldn't that be a good reason to not try and CR all in like always? Or are you talking about this particular flop?

Personally this is a fold to the 4bet. I think calling the 4bet OOP is really bad in this spot especially with a hand like AJ which tends to put you in more trouble spots than good spots. Either shove or fold preflop imo. I put the villian on AA/AK/AQ/KK/QQ/JJ/1010/99/88/77. Not sure how he handles his small pp either. Not likely that he holds 33 here but he could be tricky. 15 hands in you just dont know how he is playing enough to justify the call preflop.

PF is close. All 3 options have a ton of merit. But given sizing, I would play the hand exactly as you did and not fold the turn. If the board was uber dry, it's more of a cry/call.

PF is close. All 3 options have a ton of merit. But given sizing, I would play the hand exactly as you did and not fold the turn. If the board was uber dry, it's more of a cry/call.

What do you see him beating in this spot? I guess I just get burned in spots like this so many times by sets or two pair that I have turned to insta folding. Which isnt good but really not wanting to play for stacks with this type of holding either. I'm still a noob so I guess the question is when is playing for stacks with TPTK profitble?