Piedy
211 posts
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NoWayFolding
3807 posts
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Piedy
211 posts
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Adriano85
898 posts
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Gray_Stork
17 posts
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Your goal should be to get stacks in against this player type and cr'ing the flop (or c/c if he shoves) is probably the best way to do that based on his hyper-aggression. If he's truly attacking any sign of weakness, you can check and have him bet the hand for you without having to worry about giving a free card to draws. Another benefit of checking is that once he presumably pots/overbets the flop and you cr', he will be pot-committed or at least think he's pot-committed with any draw/any pair he chose to bet in the first place. So instead of betting and getting a call + a likely turn fold from a hand like medium pair, your check almost forces him to bet and talk himself into calling your eventual flop shove.
Of course if you have seen him take free cards with draws or pot-control weak made hands on draw heavy boards, then most of this stuff does not apply and you should just bet. But even then it should be with the intention of calling a shove.
Posted 10 months ago
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A-LX
588 posts
Joined 09/2009
you guys do realize OP is 300bb deep right? Checkshipping seems terrible here, unless villain is the biggest station ever, just because he's capable of bluff shipping with bottom pair doesnt mean he will call a HUGE overbet when you check/ship on this flop. Imo if you do decide to chekc here its much better to just check and bluff catch, but I would much rather do that with at least ace of clubs. Without it I prefer just betting here I think.
Posted 10 months ago
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Adriano85
898 posts
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I dont see him folding any club or top pair tbh... He is a maniac and I highly doubt he gives a shit how deep we are...
If his flOp bet will be big shipping is not even a ridiculous overbet anymore.
Posted 10 months ago
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NoWayFolding
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Adriano85
898 posts
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Value against pairs and against draws.
He is likely going to overbet those himself when we check and call a shove very often. This is a scary board so he will def use it to apply pressure on us.
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A-LX
588 posts
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I dont see him folding any club or top pair tbh... He is a maniac and I highly doubt he gives a shit how deep we are...
If his flOp bet will be big shipping is not even a ridiculous overbet anymore.
Again just because he's aggressive with his bluffs doesnt mean he calls of random hands for no reason. There's a possibility that he will call with pairs + draws, when you shove, but he will have a lot of random air hands too, because he's supposedly betting close to 100% of his range and betting the turn a lot as well. So why would you remove that large portion of his range by check/shipping on the flop?
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sweetjazz3
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Adriano85
898 posts
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Again just because he's aggressive with his bluffs doesnt mean he calls of random hands for no reason. There's a possibility that he will call with pairs + draws, when you shove, but he will have a lot of random air hands too, because he's supposedly betting close to 100% of his range and betting the turn a lot as well. So why would you remove that large portion of his range by check/shipping on the flop?
Once vilain overbets the flop there is nothing more to play. The hand plays itself. By betting we just reduce the possibilty of villain spewing around.
Posted 10 months ago
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NoWayFolding
3807 posts
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Once vilain overbets the flop there is nothing more to play. The hand plays itself. By betting we just reduce the possibilty of villain spewing around.
Not true.
But checking may have more merits than betting if he really does bet 100% of his range on this board (which I dont think is usually the case on 3 fluish boards)
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Gray_Stork
17 posts
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Again just because he's aggressive with his bluffs doesnt mean he calls of random hands for no reason. There's a possibility that he will call with pairs + draws, when you shove, but he will have a lot of random air hands too, because he's supposedly betting close to 100% of his range and betting the turn a lot as well. So why would you remove that large portion of his range by check/shipping on the flop?
I don't think removing the air portion of his range by check-shipping is that big a deal because stack sizes make it difficult for him to bet big on the flop and ship turn expecting to have some fold equity. If he pots the flop and hero calls, the pot will be 156$ and villain will have a 1/2 pot bet behind on turn. In this scenario, I would expect villain to be shipping turn almost exclusively for value. But then again, he is a maniac and maybe he's not thinking about betsizing and what it does to his fold equity on turn and will spew regardless. Anyway, I can get behind a c/c line otf if he bets 50-70% instead of pot, because I think a smaller betsize will increase the likelihood of villain continuing his bluff on turn. If he pots/overbets the flop, I still prefer shipping for value since villain is somewhat committed and AA should fare well against his range.
Posted 10 months ago
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A-LX
588 posts
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You're trying to apply your own logic for villain, just because you think its 'bad' to bluff turn for half pot after you overbet flop doesn't mean he will think the same. Same logic applies for him thinking he's committed.
I know from experience that this isn't true at all. (I've seen multiple 'maniacs' ship their last money in with less than 1/2 pot or even 1/3pot behind with complete air.)
Also OP posted this read :
"When checked too he bets 100% w/ his complete range. Overbets the turn almost everytime. "
I don't get why it keeps getting ignored. If your plan is to bluff catch here with that read check/calling twice is almost always going to be better than check/shoving, unless you know for sure he wont double barrel on this board.
Posted 10 months ago
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