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Poker Video: Misc/Other by DeathDonkey (Mid Stakes)

Triple the Gold
Triple the love

holla @ groth911t

booya

This is cool. It's nice to have other stuff here too than just NL videos. But where are the PLO videos? Not everybody wants to grind Texas Hold'em all the time.

We want PLO, we want PLO!

Over and out.

DeathDonkey - First of all, thanks a lot for posting all these videos, they've been a great help for me. Okay, down to business now - At around 55:12 in the video, you suggest the fold with the K-2-5-9-5

I know you mention you're not as much of a math oriented person as others, but I'm interested to see the math behind this. I'm not sure whether I'd fold here because in this particular scenario in the SB (assuming BB folds) you're betting 8 into a pot of 17, and you say you won't call. But if you're on the BB (assuming SB folds), you'd call by betting 5 into a pot of 17. I'm not sure about the odds for 2-5-x-x-x, but I know 2-7-x-x-x is almost exactly 25% to make at least an 8 high after 3 draws. A 2-3-7-x-x is about 32% to make an 8 high after 3 draws. Although this doesn't directly prove anything, the small difference in the chance they make a pat hand by the final draw, together with the chance the 2-5-x-x-x improves after the 1st draw giving it pot equity and the small difference between betting 8 and 5, makes me feel that it is an alright call to call a 2-5-x-x-x even in the SB.

Also, If there's anyone else with the math out there to provide an answer to this, it'll be much appreciated...

My references for the above percentages are here:

http://wiki.lowballgurus.com/article/TD2-7_Multi-Draw_Distributions
http://wiki.lowballgurus.com/article/Drawing_to_732xx

Thanks for posting nb123, this is very interesting, I would have guessed the difference in making an 8 or better with 25xyz vs 237xy would be a bit more different (though not as much as I expect most people would think). I agree given these numbers it was probably profitable. In tougher games I would still argue for the fold because if the BB wakes up and reraises you are in a world of trouble, and at higher stakes tough players will really use their position well, so that small % difference isn't quite so small when the situation is already "close".

-DeathDonkey

Thanks for the reply - I think I see what you're saying about it not being a good play in tougher games, but I think I need to watch more of your higher stakes videos coming up in this series, as I've never played more than 5/10 myself. I see that if the BB knows we call 25xxx type hands in the SB and the button is relatively loose, the BB can probably exploit this by reraising representing a large hand and force the button and SB to play passively throughout the hand, which again, the BB can exploit. Is this along the right line of thinking?

I also agree with you that despite this, it could probably still be profitable at the lower limits, where I find many people still playing very weak draws and showing weakness in their post-draw play.

Yep, check out the last while of EP 6 where DJ and I played some 30/60, and I think you will really enjoy episodes 7 and 8 where I review DJ's play at 30/60 along with a special guest!

-DeathDonkey

After posting at twoplustwo, someone pointed out that I read the statistical tables wrongly for 237xx - in fact, 237xx is actually 43% to make an 8 high by the end, drawing to an 8 every time, and 27xxx is 36%. Still, the difference is small between the 2, so the more tight passive the BB is and the more loose aggressive the button is, the more likely I'd call this in the SB.

Okay, just wanted to set the statistics right for the other readers out there.

I would always look to top up my stack in the unlikely event that every street is capped.

Anyway, great series, haven't watched numbers 6-8 yet, but if they're anything like the first five, I'm in for a treat. Seeing 2-7 explained so expertly is a great experience.

At 21:30, when you catch the five against the pat player, isn't it better to call the second street and prevent him from breaking a hand worse than yours when you raise and thereby getting the same number of bets in but against a weaker range? Do you think your pat behind spooks him too much anyways?

At 21:30, when you catch the five against the pat player, isn't it better to call the second street and prevent him from breaking a hand worse than yours when you raise and thereby getting the same number of bets in but against a weaker range? Do you think your pat behind spooks him too much anyways?

No I don't think it spooks him too much but I rarely use the "freeze" play with a hand that strong, there is too much value in getting in 3 BB's with my turn raise and river value bet. People rarely break made hands so I think this isn't a huge concern the way people play these days.

Time Link to 00:37:59

Isn't this just one of those spots where he maybe made the hand a little tougher to play by 3 betting pre draw? if he just flats then c/c the 1st draw and improves then c/c the 2nd draw, then i assume we break the 9 and draw to our 76. Seems like we lose .5 bets less to get to the end and we will prob. get 2 bets on the river if we make our hand by c/r or 1 bet by leading our made 7s and possibly bet folding our made 876s. Seems like a better way to play it but im not sure. What do you think?

Time Link to 00:44:34

This spot is another that you realize he 3b, last time i actually dont think you did. Though you said you believe dj sensei could prob. beat these games w/ the knowledge he has gained from you so far in this series. i actually think otherwise just because of a lack of understanding this exact spot. I notice him looking for this play a bit in earlier vids also and then w/ him leading and wanting to lead into some same # draws in many other spots that he hasn't really let this concept sink in yet. I like the fact that you have pointed this out to dj many of the times that he has done it, kudos to you. all in all i am really enjoying this format of dual commentary w/ one player more or less teaching the other player the many situations of 2-7 triple draw. I am also really enjoying this series. I hope that you aren't thinking that i am trying to flame dj, just merely pointing out the fact that you have more than once pointed out this exact situation and the mistake is still being made.

Time Link to 00:50:05

WOW, not to be rude but i almost banged my head on the desk lol.

Time Link to 00:01:49

hmm pretty sure that s a mistake, don't you think so?