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This happens a bit in the lower stakes games, im sure less frequently at higher limits but whatever. When a guy calls the turn and draws 2 on the last draw, is it correct to pat every Jx, no matter the strength of your draw? Would you pat weaker? How thin should we be valuebetting this spot? I find myself patting strong Jx`s and checking them back a lot when they do this, unsure if thats too weak.

Also, how good of a price/how much do we need to know about our opponents turn patting tendencies/river tendencies do we need for calling drawing 1 to weak hands like 5783, 3457 etc? Or are these hands folds most of the time anyway?

never break a J vs a 2cd unless the guy is putting in lots of bets with weakish hands otr. betting alot of 9's is fine, more against people that call alot obv.

those hands should never be folded unless the guy patted earlier in the hand and is tight.

So we should call against a pat range with hands as weak as 3457, 3467 etc?

you're gonna need to explain the situation a bit better, pat ranges vary alot depending on how you get to it.

Say as easy as CO vs BTN or in a blindwar, where we`re a card ahead all streets up until the turn where we fail to improve and check to our opponent, who bets, indicating that hes pat, and we hold a hand like 3457, hands like that? You advocate calling in "our" spot? I guess it would be kinda close but not really with hands like 8734, 8653 right?

I think HJD's point is there is a world of difference in the strength of our opponent's hand range depending on how he got pat. Say we're drawing one in these four cases vs an opponent who:
1)was pat from predraw
2)drew 1 at the first and second and then went pat
3)drew 3, drew 2 now pat
4)drew 2 at the first and went pat right away

I don't think you're going to make much money drawing one card at an 87 on the last draw in the first two cases for example. (I'm a rank beginner at 27TD though)

all of those hands are 100% calls in that spot as he can/should pat alot of J's and definitely all T's. they can also be bluffing. and if you c/f that many hands there, then they can start betting UI and there will be times you'll fold 50% equity for no reason. something like 9653 would be close

No, im talking about someone who drew 2 or maybe 3 on the first draw, then 1/2 on the second and now bets when we check to him. 9653 would be close, does that mean 97 looks like where we draw the line for folding?

Another thing, how far down are you willing to go in blind defences vs the button, as for 2 card hands go? 34? 35? 74? 73?
How about 367?

No, im talking about someone who drew 2 or maybe 3 on the first draw, then 1/2 on the second and now bets when we check to him. 9653 would be close, does that mean 97 looks like where we draw the line for folding?

I think what HJD is trying to say is, it really depends on a lot of factors. Its certainly not as simple as always drawing with a 96 and always folding a 97 draw when opponent pats the turn.

Against some opponents, its pretty bad to draw at a 96 when they bet the turn, against some you have to peel very widely. Your probably better off posting some examples rather than trying to get a really general answer. Also, run some equity calculations against pat range with different draws.

Is there a site where i could run these kinds of simulations?

Is there a site where i could run these kinds of simulations?

I had to do a lot of mine by hand. I think the best I could find is 2 dimes where you can run 1 hand vs your draw. I would then run my draw vs each of his likely pat hands and figure out my overall equity.

Eg, Say we give our opponent 8632x after the 2nd draw and we think he pats any T on the 3rd. His range is T8632, 98632, 87632, 86532, 86432. I would calculate my equity w my draw, say 7543x vs each of those hands and figure out how often he has each one to get my overall equity.

Should we ever consider breaking 87432 in a 3handed pot in position before the first draw?

Should we ever consider breaking 87432 in a 3handed pot in position before the first draw?

I think they would have to be pretty extreme circumstances. I wouldn't recommend it.

Should we ever consider breaking 87432 in a 3handed pot in position before the first draw?

My intuition would be that the probability of improving our hand vs it getting worse would mean any time we were thinking of breaking we would be better off just folding instead.