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Loose game with two very aggressive players. I am UTG with A A 9 9. I raise.

OK player UTG +1 calls (good hand reader, but his specialty is Holdem).
New player (waited 12 hands before playing because he couldn't come in on kill) called.
Crazy dude (crazy player) called.
L-man who doesn't really know what he is doing calls
SB (ok player, played often with him) calls.
6 way to flop. $120.

Flop is A Q 5.

SB bets, I raise, UTG+1 3-bets, New player calls, crazy raises, L-man calls 4-cold, SB folds. I gotta call??? Maybe?? but I hate my spot now. I know there are hardly any cards I like on the turn to preserve a scoop (two nines, 3 Qs, 3 Fives and I am pretty sure there are no aces in the deck). I am pretty sure the SB either had 2 pair, or a lower set to be able to lead, then fold that flop. So take away maybe two more outs to allow me to scoop. Can I fold? My gut told me too, but the pot seemed so big.

All called ($330) and saw a 5-way turn with the 10. I check, UTG+1 bets, new guy raises, crazy 3-bets, L-man calls. 3 bets to me, knowing it will be capped and knowing all will call. Can I call? I only had 88 left, so I just shoved my 80 in. I still wanted to fold though, but knew if I hit my card, I would get the whole pot of $730, plus calls on my remaining 5 bucks on river.

I was concerned now that I only had maybe 9 outs at best. Thoughts on this? Fold the flop? Fold the turn? Call and hope?

Ever think about just calling here preflop? You say that the game is loose. I don't expect that a preflop raise is going to get it HU for you, which is why I would raise a hand like this. You flopped the nuts in this hand and still aren't happy with it from the sound of things, so I don't see how you are raising preflop for value here.

I definitely call the flop, you have the current nuts in a bloated pot with no low yet on board.

So on the turn you are immediately getting 650:80 or 8:1 with no implied odds, because you are essentially all-in. If you say that you feel like you are behind and have 9 outs to improve, you are looking at 44:9 or 5:1 to improve. I am not worried about a low hitting on the river because none of our outs would bring a low. So yes, I would call the turn.

Ever think about just calling here preflop?

Oddly, after the hand as I was thinking about the play, that thought never crossed my mind. Then I started writing this summary and my first thought was that maybe I should limp utg with that hand.

I am still thinking though that on the flop I am in a situation where I do have the nuts, however I am way behind. Given the action, I know there has to be high and low wraps and flush draws. 9 cards only keep me having the nuts, only 6 of which give me comfort, and 35 cards bad (this assumes case ace is not an out).

I am wondering if this is one of those rare fold the nuts situations in Omaha, like flopping broadway, no redraw and facing heavy action.

ProPokerTools is your friend.

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation
528 trials (Exhaustive)
board: AQ5
AsAc9s9h 8.62% (21 scoops, 70 wins hi, 0 ties hi, 0 wins lo, 0 ties lo)
2h3s4s6h 48.39% (61 scoops, 61 wins hi, 0 ties hi, 450 wins lo, 0 ties lo)
KdJdTc9c 35.42% (37 scoops, 337 wins hi, 0 ties hi, 0 wins lo, 0 ties lo)
QhQs5h5s 7.58% (20 scoops, 60 wins hi, 0 ties hi, 0 wins lo, 0 ties lo)

That, by a rough estimation is as bad as you can possibly be. I know it's only 4 hands but you get my point.

You have to call $20 into $310. I would never dream of folding on this flop. I would limp preflop in a game like this. I don't know maybe fold if it has no suits but if there are going to be a lot of 6 way pots I don't mind our hand at all.

I couldn't imagine folding the turn. 9 outs @ 4-1 on the turn with a bunch of dead money in the pot sounds awesome to me. + there is a non-zero chance you have the best hand. I know you're thinking "I NEED TO IMPROVE" but I'm sure there QQ23dd is a possibility.

Getting strung along in a huge pot doesn't suck when you have a monster. NH, I think the questions are relevant but I can't see folding @ any point.

If we take away spades from our hand, can we fold preflop?

If we take away spades from our hand, can we fold preflop?

I probably do =/. Unless people are throwing at chips to limp but even then we are in EP.

Well, I ran the ACTUAL numbers. On the flop, I am actually better off than I thought.

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation
406 trials (Exhaustive)
board: AQ5
2346 33.31% (19 scoops, 47 wins hi, 13 ties hi, 94 wins lo, 246 ties lo)
KKJT 3.20% (0 scoops, 0 wins hi, 48 ties hi, 0 wins lo, 0 ties lo)
A238 17.92% (1 scoops, 15 wins hi, 13 ties hi, 0 wins lo, 246 ties lo)
KJT9 17.49% (9 scoops, 107 wins hi, 48 ties hi, 0 wins lo, 0 ties lo)
AA99 28.08% (52 scoops, 176 wins hi, 0 ties hi, 0 wins lo, 0 ties lo)


Same numbers with at least two assumed dead cards folded in the SB.
ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation
351 trials (Exhaustive)
board: AQ5
dead cards: Q5
2346 35.54% (19 scoops, 47 wins hi, 13 ties hi, 86 wins lo, 220 ties lo)
KKJT 3.70% (0 scoops, 0 wins hi, 48 ties hi, 0 wins lo, 0 ties lo)
A238 18.87% (1 scoops, 15 wins hi, 13 ties hi, 0 wins lo, 220 ties lo)
KJT9 20.23% (9 scoops, 107 wins hi, 48 ties hi, 0 wins lo, 0 ties lo)
AA99 21.65% (31 scoops, 121 wins hi, 0 ties hi, 0 wins lo, 0 ties lo)


On turn w/ dead cards
ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation
26 trials (Exhaustive)
board: AQ5T
dead cards: Q5
2346 20.19% (0 scoops, 0 wins hi, 0 ties hi, 4 wins lo, 13 ties lo)
KKJT 10.58% (0 scoops, 0 wins hi, 10 ties hi, 0 wins lo, 0 ties lo)
A238 24.04% (1 scoops, 5 wins hi, 0 ties hi, 0 wins lo, 13 ties lo)
KJT9 25.96% (2 scoops, 6 wins hi, 10 ties hi, 0 wins lo, 0 ties lo)
AA99 19.23% (5 scoops, 5 wins hi, 0 ties hi, 0 wins lo, 0 ties lo)

On Turn w/o dead cards
ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation
28 trials (Exhaustive)
board: AQ5T
2346 18.75% (0 scoops, 0 wins hi, 0 ties hi, 4 wins lo, 13 ties lo)
KKJT 9.82% (0 scoops, 0 wins hi, 10 ties hi, 0 wins lo, 0 ties lo)
A238 22.32% (1 scoops, 5 wins hi, 0 ties hi, 0 wins lo, 13 ties lo)
KJT9 24.11% (2 scoops, 6 wins hi, 10 ties hi, 0 wins lo, 0 ties lo)
AA99 25.00% (7 scoops, 7 wins hi, 0 ties hi, 0 wins lo, 0 ties lo)

I, of course, missed all scoop cards.

Those are pretty much the 4 worst case scenarios for the villains to possibly have.