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Poker Video: Stud/Stud 8 by Joe Tall (Mid Stakes)

been waiting for this for a looong time! thanks joe!

Enjoyed making it, thanks Joe

Very enjoyable video. More Stud Hi please. What about a multi-table video playing $0.50/1.00 or $1/2?

STUD-HI STUD-HI STUD-HI!!!

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Joe tall i think you said 2 times in the video that people who call on 4th is probably calling on 5th so its better to not continue barreling.

In stud is not the same like holdem in which people peel the flop because its cheap but folds unimproved when the betsize doubles?

Hey,
I'm just learning the HORSE games and I got a quick question.
About 40 minutes into the Video Hero has QJT and a villian limpreraises with a 6 door.
What I would like to know is the reasoning behind the 4th/5th street peel because the way villain played his hand he is either rolled up or has aces in the hole (unless he is a maniac) which would give us 6 outs at best if we hit either a K or a 9 and we might be drawing dead to a full house at 5th + if we make our hand and are ahead he has at least a 4 out redraw.

Seems like a pretty bad reverse implied odds situation to me but as I said I have litte to no expierience in Stud Hi.

Edit: Ok, the pot is pretty big on 4th but still what would be the plan if we make our hand at 6th or 7th, raise/fold, call for overcall or raise/call?

More of this and less nlhe

Joe tall i think you said 2 times in the video that people who call on 4th is probably calling on 5th so its better to not continue barreling.

In stud is not the same like holdem in which people peel the flop because its cheap but folds unimproved when the betsize doubles?

Obv it depends on the read and situation but no, it's not like Holdem as in Stud they hold their own cards and if you raise a bring and he calls, his intention of folding immediately very slim, so be careful when barreling.

Hey,
I'm just learning the HORSE games and I got a quick question.
About 40 minutes into the Video Hero has QJT and a villian limpreraises with a 6 door.
What I would like to know is the reasoning behind the 4th/5th street peel because the way villain played his hand he is either rolled up or has aces in the hole (unless he is a maniac) which would give us 6 outs at best if we hit either a K or a 9 and we might be drawing dead to a full house at 5th + if we make our hand and are ahead he has at least a 4 out redraw.

Seems like a pretty bad reverse implied odds situation to me but as I said I have litte to no expierience in Stud Hi.

Edit: Ok, the pot is pretty big on 4th but still what would be the plan if we make our hand at 6th or 7th, raise/fold, call for overcall or raise/call?

Yeah that pots huge on 4th and you can peel it. You'd be surprised what you see when there is a limp re-raise. Hands like 4s5s6s are int here as well. After that, I would likely just make a hand and head to show down once your opponents board pairs.

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THIS!!!
I really enjoyed seeing a Stud vid. It seems like ages since the last one.
JT, could you do something about this? I would die for blumpster playing Stud Hi. Btw., why is Stud H/L so much perferred over Stud Hi by the regulars on boards like here and 2+2? More love for Stud Hi!!!

Following some thoughts of mine:

2T2 (3:00): I like a fold here on 3rd a lot. Villain will barrel 4th with 100% of his range. There are just too many cards we can't continue (any A, K, Q, J, T, 9, 2, any heart).
We are basically calling for a 5-outer, getting 1:3,5 potodds. I feel like this is a reversed implied odds situation most of the time.

857 (16:15), 252 (20:00), 4K4 (23:00): I'm kinda surprised this hands came up in this vid. Don't want to be mean, but I thought playing 3/6 and upwards it should be clear that all of them are pretty easy folds on 3rd.

A8A (27:30): I don't think villain has trips here often, assuming he is not total braindead defending with dead sevens. Putting him on either a flushdraw or 2pair, we can call 6th with the pot laying us 1:6,5 and us needing 1:3,5 (12/39). In 1,58% of the times he will make a fh by the river (or has us already drawing dead), but chances are slim... Thought like ceegee about a riverraise and like it, even with 2pair. Villain will often call out of curiosity. Btw., villains riverbet is awful.

K9K (36:00): Like your play here, ceegee. @JT: equity doesn't change much between 4th and 5th:

cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Ks Kc 9d 9h 265348 53.07 234651 46.93 1 0.00 0.531
Ts Ac Ad 2h 234651 46.93 265348 53.07 1 0.00 0.469

cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Ks Kc 9d 9h 3h 271835 54.37 228165 45.63 0 0.00 0.544
Ts Ac Ad 5h 2h 228165 45.63 271835 54.37 0 0.00 0.456

About Perrys play: I think he was just confused, because he could't figure what ceegee had, especially catching the 9 on 6th, seeing the 9 dead on 3rd and having the K in the hole.

6J5 (42:00): I like ceegees reasoning behind the limp. We don't want to play out flush HU vs. an A or Q door. I think we either want to make a big hand and play a big pot or get out cheap on 4th.
Even if he is bluffraising us with 89A, if we brick on 4th and he bets we don't fold the best hand often since 89Ax > 6J5x. There is an example in 7CS4AP: a hand like T52 isn't worth playing against a probable big pair, even if the fd and the pair outs are live.
Also I would like you to expand on balancing a raise in this situation. What hands are this? Obv. 555, KK5, AA5, but that's it as far as I can see.

JT, I really liked you pounding on limped pots.

Slightly offtopic: ceegee, how can somebody run like 2.62BB/100 for ca. 13.000h with an VIPIP of 60% and a 3rd raise of 43% at 1/2 (referring to a screenshot you posted over at 2+2)???

I dont mind the 3rd fold w/2T2 but be aware of ante stealing abusers on your bring-in. I give a lot of reason you should fold.

As for the K9K hand the all-in equities don't change much, true, but getting the extra full bet in a street later is the right play. Perry spews 6th regardless if he's confused or not.

Time Link to 00:39:00

I don't like Perry's play on 6th either, but wonder if he's doing it because of blockers. We kind played our hand like we have KK99 and he now has one of each.

Time Link to 00:13:59

In this spot I would have to disagree with Joe. Yes you could raise to thin out the field. Based on this player which I didn´t have any notes on, we can assume that he might be in the range of KK4 or AA4, any 3flush combination like xa4 of spades doesnt really add up so we can exlude that. We have huge equity in this hand of making our flush, so basically the call was fine to keep the others too in the hand. If we knock out these two players, it will be pretty obvious that we hold a 4flush, making it easier for cplayer to slow down. Imo we would also lose the value of the other two hands which seemed to have totally bricked 4th street. Calling here sets up a better possibility to win a huge pot, rather than going heads up with cplayers big pair.