Coaching Poker Forums

They would not be listed as a coach here if they weren't really good at what they do.

Just an aside, this is quite naive. WiltonTilt has said himself there were coaches on DCs roster that he felt were not up to scratch and they were removed at his behest.

That has nothing to do with Tuba or any other particular coach on this site, but automatically believing a coach is good because he is on DCs roster is very silly.

Jason Ho watched poker videos/sweat people/analyze their hand histories all day. Did that mean he was good at poker?

Jason Ho was representing the nuts and bluffing. Tuba is representing (probably) TPTK. No comparison.

In poker it's easy to sound knowledgeable, especially to a beginner. I could say the most nonsense bullshit and give totally wrong advice couched in the right poker terms and the right knowledgeable tone and make any $50 NL player believe it, especially if they were paying me for coaching.

This I can agree with. When people are recording a video live, it stands to reason that from time to time, they'll mis-speak. The guy switched on enough to spot mistakes either in a video or in a coaching lesson has the best chance to improve.

Sometimes, I idly think it would be nice to have a "booby-trapped" video, with 5 or so deliberate errors, and a locked comments section until you have posted your guesses at the deliberate errors.

And if/when I go for coaching myself, I'll drive my coach mad asking "why?".

To all the DC members trying to support Steve the best thing to do is just let this thread die. By continuing to argue we give otis a voice. Just let it be a continual thread of him spewing what anyone who has learned from Steve knows is nonsense. I'm not sure why he has this vendetta, but just ignore him and let him fade back into insignificance.

I could understand the hate if he had constant negative feedback, but that's not the case.

Spino1i is right when he says that the feedback is irrelevant because the people providing it don't know enough to properly evaluate it.

And Otis, this is the second thread I've seen you go in and just start bashing, while comparing yourself to the coach and how you are such a better player and could do a much better job. It never comes across as you looking out for anyone's interests, but more to belittle. Why?

It IS to belittle, and it IS to look out for peoples' interests. The belittling isn't personal or gratuitous. In a way I'm sorry I mentioned tubasteve at all because that made it personal so people instajumped to their buddy's defense without actually thinking about the content of my message.

There are coaches that aren't good, people think they are and whether tubasteve is awesome or he isn't the overriding message is very important: be extremely critical unless you have a very good reason to believe someone is competent. If a guy hasn't won much at poker ever this should be a huge red flag. Tubasteve or no, it's important to be objective and not caught up with the crowd.

And also, why are you not coaching?

I used to coach but I've always made a much higher hourly playing. I have no interest in being a professional coach.

All: Just hire the Jman for 1k an hour. Problem solved

f you don't know if you have tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands, you are obviously full of shit.

*sigh*

What that means is that since I found DC and got a lot of coaching from one of the guys who is awesome here I've made well over 6 figs from poker (this is not a big deal it doesn't mean I'm awesome since that was almost 3 years ago so it's not that much really but I don't play a ton and never have).... how much of that money would I not have made had I not got that coaching? $10k? $20k? $100k? It's obviously impossible to know, but whatever it is it's a lot and it was without a doubt the best investment I ever made.

So if you find a good coach or coaches it can be really great. That said, I got coaching from 4 or 5 other people, including some who were very good players, and none of them did me any good. Choosing a coach isn't easy, hell I'm 1 for 5 I suck at it too. I think I've learned from my mistakes though, and I'm sharing that info here even if it does rub some people the wrong way.

I do think it's funny you thought my comment meant that. Would anyone be dumb enough to lie like that? Read better next time.

But hey, the great thing about criticizing a coach is that talking trash does not require results to back up.

And the great thing about PTR is that people can see my results and know that I can back it up! Awesome!

I personally have had coaching from Steve, and I can vouch for the depth of his poker knowledge and understanding. Just because someone doesn't grind their ass off all day or put in millions of hands doesn't mean they have no experience and can't find your leaks and help you plug them.

Come on, I didn't say that. "Grind your ass off all day" is not a requirement. "Having some kind of verified earnings at poker in the last 2 years" is really more like it.

So that's all I have said what I meant to say and I hope no one was too deeply offended. To repeat for the 80th time and sum it up: there are a ton of poker coaches and a ton of poker videos. Separating what is good from what is not is impossible when you're starting because you don't know what's good and what's bad- you can't know because you are new to poker. There are a lot of "professional coaches" that can't make money at poker so they make money at coaching, this is not disputed by ANYBODY. With that in mind, one way to try to avoid this is to get coaching and watch vids only from people you know for sure are crushing the games they play. This doesn't mean they'll be great coaches or make awesome vids but it at least ensures that they know what they are talking about to some extent.

I really have no vendettas against anyone and I do think there are some fucking awesome coaches here (like I said, getting the right DC coach when I did was the best investment I ever made.)

OK that's it, good luck everyone, seriously.

All: Just hire the Jman for 1k an hour. Problem solved

I think his hourly is quite a bit higher than that. Last I heard he was charging 2k an hour for coaching. 1k an hour would be a steal for jman coaching.

again,again,again........


If you have doubts about the coaches here.

Whys do you subscribe????

So if you find a good coach or coaches it can be really great. That said, I got coaching from 4 or 5 other people, including some who were very good players, and none of them did me any good. Choosing a coach isn't easy, hell I'm 1 for 5 I suck at it too. I think I've learned from my mistakes though, and I'm sharing that info here even if it does rub some people the wrong way.

No you're not. All you've done so far is disparage one coach by name and an amorphous group of low stakes coaches.
You haven't shared anything about how you went about choosing a coach. Or in what ways you were disappointed by the other coaches.
Or in how you changed your evaluation criteria based on those disappointments.
Tell us instead how you realized that the coaches you didn't like were wrong. How are you assessing the very good players who didn't do you any good? That is information I would be grateful for.

And the great thing about PTR is that people can see my results and know that I can back it up! Awesome!

I must've missed where you posted your poker SN.

Hi Otis,

Just a suggestion but do not get coaching from tubasteve, and do not watch his videos. There are plenty of other options.

-Joe

An advantage to the results displayed/PTR suggestion is that you know what stakes people are playing.

I know of coaches who play lower (sometimes much lower) than what it says on their bio and charge more $/hour than a buyin at the real limits they play. Yes there's breathweapon but it seems somewhat rampant throughout the industry, 200NL reg charge $120/hour, "downswing" (read: games are getting tougher and they don't work hard enough), drops down to 100NL/50NL and never really makes it back up but continues to charge $120/hour (which is fine) but it still says/everyone still thinks he's a 200NL player.

I like it how DragTheBar show results for all of their coaches (and some aint pretty).

Also, the DC hiring process has been talked about so much... can one of the higher ups post the DC review/firing process?

- Basically how do you consistently review your coaches and when/how do you decide to let them go?

You haven't shared anything about how you went about choosing a coach. Or in what ways you were disappointed by the other coaches.
Or in how you changed your evaluation criteria based on those disappointments.
Tell us instead how you realized that the coaches you didn't like were wrong. How are you assessing the very good players who didn't do you any good? That is information I would be grateful for.

OK, good idea.

1) Way back in the day. This is before DC existed. My first coach was a huge name on 2+2 and is still real famous this was 2006. This person charges like 500+ / hr now but at the time only charged $50 or $60. I had no referral except the name and posting history, no vids to go on or anything, this was a mistake. I got sweated over AIM, no TV, no skype, no theory talk no in-hand advice that would be "unethical." I felt that this person was doing other stuff while coaching me and really basically didn't care about whether I got any better.

Mistakes made: No referral, signing up because this was a big name that everyone thought was awesome. Even though there was a great poker mind there that's won lots of money and still does, that's not enough.

2) Also no referral. But I loved this guy's vids. He didn't sweat me, we talked theory, he was smart and it was sorta helpful. He was an OK guy, $1k / 4 hrs was too high a price, you win some you lose some. A couple things he said to this day stick with me.

3) Guy from a major training site. Did not tell the whole truth about how much money he had made. Claimed to play 5/10-50/100 yet was coaching for $150 / hr. 1 session and I was done, this guy was clearly not on the level. He's no longer with the site but no major drama in public. I bet they realized it and cut him.

Mistake made: Trusting a training site to have done the due diligence for me. Thinking a guy who beats HSNL would coach for $150 / hr. See breathweapon scandal on 2+2, same sort of thing. That guy was a huge fraud claimed to beat HSNL but was cheap. Guess what though he had nothing but awesome reviews from all his students and Tri Slowhabit Nguyen also said he was awesome. Learn from that.

4) Got referred from a friend who I trusted was good at poker. Guy said "this guy really wants you to get better is a great player and a great teacher." Looked into his poker background, I knew who he was anyways. Watched a couple vids of his and was impressed. My friend had clearly made some big jumps in his game too, so I got started and got way way better. The guy really did want me to improve and just did everything right. So what made the planets align here:

1) Referral from a friend that he was a good teacher and a solid guy
2) Referral that the guy really cared about his students progressing and wasn't just showing up for the $$
3) Proof that the guy wins at poker and is better than just good at poker (it's even better if he wins more at poker than he does coaching, that's a really good sign and was clearly the case here.)
4) Watched some vids as well and talked with my buddy to make sure I liked the teaching style

All 4 of these are required IMO.

There are a couple coaches I'm leaving out here because I made some mistakes a couple times and repeating myself is boring.

I must've missed where you posted your poker SN.

I haven't posted it, but if you really look hard you could find at least one of them. I'm not gonna out my names here but as far as tracked hands there are 135,000 hands mostly from 1/2-5/10 HU (mostly 1/2-3/6) at a little over 8 PTBB / 100 on average. PTR usually underestimates HU profit, so actually my rate is a little higher. I also play on other smaller untracked networks. If you don't believe me feel free to prop bet me on the results and I'll have a 3rd party we both trust verify.

I'm not trying to brag either I just think it is very important that I don't totally suck at poker because I'm saying some pretty judgmental stuff here. I'm not the next coming of durrrr or anything but I'm at least half decent at poker.

Also, I wonder when/if ever there'll be accrediting bodies for poker coaches. Like a 10 week online course or something that actually teaches you how to teach and at the end you get their tick of approval.

Feel free to steal my million dollar idea guys!

This is bull shit , good player is not always a good coach, have also lot of football trainers , that never plays soccer on the highest level.

When you want the best of the best take phil galfond pay 2000 $ something likes that.

When you watch the videos here you can analyse very well, what is a good coach or not, nobody is perfect.

Where we are talking about the most players here plays micro or low limits, and go to say what is good and what is bad...