Mid Stakes Shorthanded NL Poker Forums

Villain playing 68/39, but has been very passive (1.5 AF) over a medium sample. He has a limping range and a raising range. Unlike most passive fish, he rarely, if ever, bluffs the river. I have seen him make reasonable folds, when he has the initiative he tends to be "one and done". I have never seen him raise postflop before.

If you have a view, please explain. Don't say "bet bigger on the flop". Thank you, you.

$1000.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 1811913
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

MP: $1000.00
CO: $1357.32
Hero (BTN): $1546.07
SB: $1039.00
BB: $3768.41
UTG: $1457.00

Pre Flop: ($15.00) Hero is BTN with A A
2 folds, CO raises to $30, Hero raises to $90, 2 folds, CO calls $60

Flop: ($195.00) T 2 3 (2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $100.00, CO raises to $363.33, Hero calls $263.33

Turn: ($921.66) Q (2 players)
CO bets $903.99

The AF stat is pretty much useless, because it only means (bet+raise)/call; so you don't really get any information about his postflop tendencies. Of course, if it is extremly low like 0.8 you can be sure that he is calling way to much, but 1.5 can mean close to everything.

If he is playing 68/39 I don't think that it makes a difference for him if you 3b him to 90 or to 120. So I would make it bigger preflop. You don't have to play a "standard" game vs fish, which should be obv, but you wanted it explained

Same on the flop. If he has a hand that calls you, he won't fold for a bet of ~140-150 either, and because you are deeper with him you want to go for the bigger betsizing.

As played I like your line. I think you can make arguments for 3betting|shoving the flop, but I don't think that you will loose value from worse hands like JJ by just calling and you let him continue bluffing (even so he has played "reasonable" he might go crazy with ~77type hand from time to time) or vbet worse. So calling the flop>3betting|shoving>>>>>>>>>folding

The sizing matters a lot. There's 2 reasons for a standard 3bet size, I've been 3betting him fairly relentlessly and to the same size. He may be a fish but he's not an idiot. He knows something is up if I suddenly jump from 90 to 100whatever. Secondly, there are 2 good agro NL1k regs left to act who are very likely to steal my 3bet, but they're going to spot the same thing he is re the sizing. On the flop in a lot of instances betting bigger is standard vs this type of player. He had been very gunshy vs large bets up to this point and I'm interested in getting the most value from his range. Vs him in particular I'm a lot happier betting bigger on the river, depending on the board.

The question is more: Why did you start to 3b only to 90 vs him? Against him you have more like a value range so you can make it bigger from the beginning. And if he calls a lot of 3bets but folds a lot to cbets, you want to add this 1-2bb to your steal, too. So there is no real reason to 3b him smaller.

Flopsizing:
Let's say you bet 150 and he calls you 30% of the time, but folds 70% of the time (to keep it easy there's no raising involved). So if you bet you make 150 * 0,3 = 45; if you only bet 100 he has to call you with at least 45% of his hands. Now you can make the argument that more hands might call the turn now, too, but in reality the range that reaches the river is close to the same as it is when you bet bigger. So there is no benefit in betting smaller. And with the pot being bigger on the river he is more inclined to call you then if the pot is smaller.

You are playing vs a fish. Even so he is not completly braindead postflop, he still has a range. And just because you bet 140-150$ on the flop won't make him fold 88 all of the sudden. There aren't really any hands that can call the smaller bet to make up for the bigger bet.

Other than bet bigger, I think you should just jam the flop. If he can make reasonable folds you don't want turn/river cards to come that will kill your action. Only reason calling is higher EV than shoving is because villain' has a wide range and is likely to continue bluffing which doesn't sound true given your description.

As played you're priced in given pot odds to call.

I agree with just shoving OTF vs. this player. His sizing seems to suggest that he has a hand he's willing to get it in with and we don't have any info to make us think that he would be bluffing in this spot.

I like your 3bet size. The arguments for making it bigger make sense because we have a stronger range and we can make more when he calls then folds to cbets. But I think 3betting smaller has the advantage of inducing lighter calls from weaker players, which will cause them to make bigger mistakes postflop.

I'd probably be a bit more likely to jam the flop w/o Ad.

Preflop is fine, then once we see the flop I'd be cbetting a bit bigger and way more inclined to just jam the flop when he raises us. The only time I'd ever call is if I knew exactly what I was going to do on every singe turn runout.

Also I find AFq to be a more useful stat.

Other than bet bigger, I think you should just jam the flop. If he can make reasonable folds you don't want turn/river cards to come that will kill your action. Only reason calling is higher EV than shoving is because villain' has a wide range and is likely to continue bluffing which doesn't sound true given your description.

As played you're priced in given pot odds to call.

100% agree. Fish might raise Tx or JJ+ for value (who knows, maybe some random 77-88), but any overcard can stop the action. Blah said it all, calling is better if you know he is bluff happy, but as you described in your OP that's not the case, he is ~~ passive. Arrrrr in.

He might be a fish but as inavacuum described villain it looks like he is very strong here (sets only imo?!).
He would prob. 4b KK pre, so QQ just got there and doubt someone like him will play slightly deep JxJd like this or push a combodraw with us blocking the nfd.
For sure it depends on dynamics and OP´s image but I wont be surprised to see here a set most of the time.

He might be a fish but as inavacuum described villain it looks like he is very strong here (sets only imo?!).
He would prob. 4b KK pre, so QQ just got there and doubt someone like him will play slightly deep JxJd like this or push a combodraw with us blocking the nfd.
For sure it depends on dynamics and OP´s image but I wont be surprised to see here a set most of the time.

why does his range looks very strong to you?
I can´t see your argument based on info.

I like your line. I like your betsizes as well. I don´t see too much reason to bet a lot bigger because we can get the money in comfortable.

"but has been very passive (1.5 AF) over a medium sample"
"he rarely, if ever, bluffs the river"
"seen him make reasonable folds, when he has the initiative he tends to be "one and done"
"never seen him raise postflop before"

We block NFD´s, we block AK combos, he 4b KK pre imo, QQ got ott there, so we beat his bluffs (which we never saw him doing before) and maybe JxJd. Just my opinion on reads we´ve got from OP and experience against player type like him. His calling range pre might be a little bit wider b/c we´re slightly deeper but anyway.. flush got there ott turn, too so I doubt some one like him is bluffing or shipping worse here. Maybe I am wrong but I could find a fold ott as played. Would be interesting to hear what he shipped there when the discussion has come to an end.

I think jamming the flop over his xr is a good line, with flush draw on board.

I am not familiar with these stakes but I have to say whenever this happens to me at NL100 and I call turn I am beat. Always.

He may be spazzing out becuase of your "relentless" 3 bets and we have to be pretty certain we are beat to ignore pot odds I suppose, but what hand other than a bluff can he have??

I would normally be pretty happy assuming that the other player is doing something stupid with KK-JJ often enough for the flop to be a ship.

Not enough info IMO.
Whats his c/r % and whats his aggression freq on flop and turn.

I dont really think anyone can say that folding > jamming /calling given the info we have. We just dont have enough.

Also have the Ad compared to not having the Ad isnt that necessary here given how loose he is.

EDIT: I dont like jamming this flop ever no matter what his range is. If he has a value hand he is never folding and if he has a flush draw we are stacking him no matter what, so I think jamming flop is a mistake. Also calling allows him to hit some things on turn or bluff.

Also I really like oyur flop bet size. Sometime would even bet smaller to let the fish float with overcards (though we do lose value to some hands like 3x and pocket pair from TT to 33

Also one other note. Not folding turn when we get there.