Diddy
23 posts
Joined 07/2011
Time Link to 00:47:30
Hey Andrew,
if MP bets and the fish folds, would you also consider x/raising when you play against this player everyday?
1.) I think you could get big trouble, if you x/raise your strong hands and strong draws on this type of board OOP, because your x/call line will become very weak (hands like J9s,T9s,7d5d etc.), which are to weak to x/rai, but also can not stand the heat if the reg is barreling through.
2.) In Order to balance this you have to x/rai also your Draws, which will hardly make a big profit, assuming his strong betting range. He will probably fold a hand like KhQh, QhJh, but I think you will get called in close to 100% of the cases and will have a flip.
I think x/calling also a hand like a set, could have some merits, because you protect your weak hands and give your opponent the chance to make bigger mistakes on later streets.
What do you think?
Best wishes
Diddy
Posted about 1 year ago
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rohan68
653 posts
Joined 12/2008
BalugaWhale
997 posts
Joined 01/2008
hi, great video concept
i agree with B and C but, what would you raise turn?
you can't raise more for value since he has more bluff
you can raise more for bluff but what will you raise bluff that you can fold (since he often has equity he may shoves
thanks
In 3-bet pots, i may shove turns with both bluffs and relatively weak made hands. In raised pots, if i think he'll shove equity over top then i'll raise my whole value range, if not then I'll just raise bluffs.
Andrew
Posted about 1 year ago
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BalugaWhale
997 posts
Joined 01/2008
Hey Andrew,
if MP bets and the fish folds, would you also consider x/raising when you play against this player everyday?
1.) I think you could get big trouble, if you x/raise your strong hands and strong draws on this type of board OOP, because your x/call line will become very weak (hands like J9s,T9s,7d5d etc.), which are to weak to x/rai, but also can not stand the heat if the reg is barreling through.
2.) In Order to balance this you have to x/rai also your Draws, which will hardly make a big profit, assuming his strong betting range. He will probably fold a hand like KhQh, QhJh, but I think you will get called in close to 100% of the cases and will have a flip.
I think x/calling also a hand like a set, could have some merits, because you protect your weak hands and give your opponent the chance to make bigger mistakes on later streets.
What do you think?
Best wishes
Diddy
If i thought he would fold KK or something, then ofc c/c is better. However, I don't think he'll fold either a big draw or an overpair, and that's most likely what he has. I probably wouldn't c/c very often there in general (unless he folds KK so i c/c the nuts, or he's super bluffy so i'd go c/c c/c c/r). So I'm not worried about balance.
He won't fold KhQh, and even so, that's not a flip against a set. A set is way ahead.
Andrew
Posted about 1 year ago
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rohan68
653 posts
Joined 12/2008
In 3-bet pots, i may shove turns with both bluffs and relatively weak made hands. In raised pots, if i think he'll shove equity over top then i'll raise my whole value range, if not then I'll just raise bluffs.
Andrew
thanks, very clear as usual
Posted about 1 year ago
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rohan68
653 posts
Joined 12/2008
Time Link to 00:36:08
hello, why do we 3bet with such a rag oop?
a reg will often call IP so we have to 3bet depolarized (and if we polarize Axo seems a lot better than 74s, doesnt it?)
i give him this calling range JJ-88,AQo,KQo,AQs-ATs,KQs-KTs,QJs,JTs
ok he misses the flop : he has 4% set, 15% overpaire and 30% Ahigh, 41% air but our range also miss flop so it's easy for him to raise bluff, doestn it?
you say he will flaot with Ax and small PP but he has more Ax than PP so bet turn on A seems really bad, (you say PP will fold to a bet on a A turn). While playing vs his calling range preflop and flop shouldn('t we bet turn everytinh but aces ?
it's allways a difficult spot for me because my range looks like his calling range so its hard to play
same idea for AJ5r, ok he hits harder than before :
4% set, 3%2 pair, 22% top pair and only 27% weak pair and 30% air but we also hit ery good this flop, so our fold equity increases doesnt it? (he will fold all his air and weak pairs that are 60% and if we CB we only need 33% fold
Posted about 1 year ago
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rohan68
653 posts
Joined 12/2008
Time Link to 00:48:15
hi ok we donk to protect vs a check, but how to you balance (if we only donks sets here its obvious)
if i'm good there are only 9 combos of sets here so we need 9 combos to balance, you want something you can play for stacks so combo draws? AQs-ATs are only 3...JTs (1)..i find only 4 combos so i dont find how to be balance
thanks (again great concept)
Posted about 1 year ago
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BalugaWhale
997 posts
Joined 01/2008
hi ok we donk to protect vs a check, but how to you balance (if we only donks sets here its obvious)
if i'm good there are only 9 combos of sets here so we need 9 combos to balance, you want something you can play for stacks so combo draws? AQs-ATs are only 3...JTs (1)..i find only 4 combos so i dont find how to be balance
thanks (again great concept)
balance isn't very important for me, especially since we're usually value-betting against the fish (who really doesn't care how balanced we are)
Andrew
Posted about 1 year ago
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BalugaWhale
997 posts
Joined 01/2008
hello, why do we 3bet with such a rag oop?
a reg will often call IP so we have to 3bet depolarized (and if we polarize Axo seems a lot better than 74s, doesnt it?)
i give him this calling range JJ-88,AQo,KQo,AQs-ATs,KQs-KTs,QJs,JTs
ok he misses the flop : he has 4% set, 15% overpaire and 30% Ahigh, 41% air but our range also miss flop so it's easy for him to raise bluff, doestn it?
you say he will flaot with Ax and small PP but he has more Ax than PP so bet turn on A seems really bad, (you say PP will fold to a bet on a A turn). While playing vs his calling range preflop and flop shouldn('t we bet turn everytinh but aces ?
it's allways a difficult spot for me because my range looks like his calling range so its hard to play
same idea for AJ5r, ok he hits harder than before :
4% set, 3%2 pair, 22% top pair and only 27% weak pair and 30% air but we also hit ery good this flop, so our fold equity increases doesnt it? (he will fold all his air and weak pairs that are 60% and if we CB we only need 33% fold
Clearly we thought that he was going to fold preflop often.
Andrew
Posted about 1 year ago
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rohan68
653 posts
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SCS
6250 posts
Joined 06/2008
thanks, so why 74s better than Axo (if it s out of the thread tell me), im really not used to 3bet this hand, specially oop
It isn't necessarily. We are 3 betting because we expect villain to fold a ton. Ax is better than 74s, in the sense that it has blockers to hands villain will continue with, but 74s may be better in the sense that we don't have to worry as much about domination postflop.
Posted about 1 year ago
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Some random guy
31 posts
Joined 02/2011
Time Link to 00:31:51
Love this. Awesome format for a series. May even be better than the "argument" series. Really looking forward to the other episodes!
I have a question about round 5. Is the river a card you expect him to barrel a lot of his air on?
Otherwise I don't see how we can draw a lot of conclusions from this only check-fold. Isn't that kinda similar to say seeing an opponent 3betting a premium hand once and drawing the conclusion that he seldom 3bet-bluffs? Wouldn't you need a lot more hands before you can draw meaningful conclusions about his frequencies in a spot if he doesn't do something out of the ordinary?
Posted about 1 year ago
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BalugaWhale
997 posts
Joined 01/2008
Love this. Awesome format for a series. May even be better than the "argument" series. Really looking forward to the other episodes!
I have a question about round 5. Is the river a card you expect him to barrel a lot of his air on?
Otherwise I don't see how we can draw a lot of conclusions from this only check-fold. Isn't that kinda similar to say seeing an opponent 3betting a premium hand once and drawing the conclusion that he seldom 3bet-bluffs? Wouldn't you need a lot more hands before you can draw meaningful conclusions about his frequencies in a spot if he doesn't do something out of the ordinary?
I suppose a more accurate description of the situation is that he didn't bluff the river with a static board (i.e. the board didn't get scarier). This is useful nonetheless (though obviously it might be more surprising if he DID bluff the river on a static board, or if he DIDN'T bluff the river on a dynamic board).
Hopefully that makes sense,
Andrew
Posted about 1 year ago
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MaskedManQc
611 posts
Joined 02/2011
There are 2 great things I like about this video / series.
First, presenting concepts with questions forces me to think and avoid waching the video passively. Only that is great for the learning experience! I feel I am working when listening the video!
Also, the situations provided helps a lot making adjustements in different situations. Situations identified in the video makes us think not only about a few specific situations, but how to make plans vs specific type of vilains.
Posted about 1 year ago
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RavenBB
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Sillygoose87
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Sillygoose87
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Sillygoose87
85 posts
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It isn't necessarily. We are 3 betting because we expect villain to fold a ton. Ax is better than 74s, in the sense that it has blockers to hands villain will continue with, but 74s may be better in the sense that we don't have to worry as much about domination postflop.
semi-grunch
TBH, I'm not 100% sure that we should be insanely worried about domination if we just give up with all non 2pair+hands which is what I imagine we're doign with 74, to an extent. When polarizing I definitely think blockers are the first priority in establishing our air range. Finally, hands like Ax allow us to have blockers to his 5bet call range as well which will help us to establish a 5bet bluff range.
I'm blowing up this thread but this video and the concept in general are both awesome! Thanks guys!!
Posted about 1 year ago
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DntWryUllWin
610 posts
Joined 07/2010
He Jedi mind tricked me into choosing a wrong answer on the question where the choices included a check/raise or a donk bet. My first thought was that c/r was far superior.
Haha I thought it seemed like you got leveled into that answer!
Posted about 1 year ago
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StackHunter
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Sark79
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CeloChamp
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semi-grunch
TBH, I'm not 100% sure that we should be insanely worried about domination if we just give up with all non 2pair+hands which is what I imagine we're doign with 74, to an extent. When polarizing I definitely think blockers are the first priority in establishing our air range. Finally, hands like Ax allow us to have blockers to his 5bet call range as well which will help us to establish a 5bet bluff range.
one merit for 74s is that it gives us more equity to barrel in many spots...
Posted about 1 year ago
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gaming_mouse
90 posts
Joined 02/2007
Time Link to 00:25:53
Isn't it dangerous to be making all your value bets 18 and all your bluffs 20? If he's observant, you'll be turning your hand face up. You said if he adjusts we can readjust, but it seems like a lot of extra balls to keep in the air, which you better not drop, just to eke out a little extra value.
Posted about 1 year ago
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BalugaWhale
997 posts
Joined 01/2008
Isn't it dangerous to be making all your value bets 18 and all your bluffs 20? If he's observant, you'll be turning your hand face up. You said if he adjusts we can readjust, but it seems like a lot of extra balls to keep in the air, which you better not drop, just to eke out a little extra value.
not just to eke out a little extra value, but also to cause your opponent to play in ways he's not comfortable with (oh no, he made it big this time, bluffing?? value betting? arghhh= much tougher than "he made it the same as usual")
Andrew
Posted about 1 year ago
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nbarbi
1 posts
Joined 07/2012
In example one if the blinds are both fishes, lets say 75 -100 bb, can we still isolate with 96s from Bu? and I also want to know if the blinds are 25 - 50 bb fishes what would change and if there were several limpers can we isolate with suited connectors or can we just limp in?
Posted 10 months ago
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