Mid Stakes Shorthanded NL Poker Forums

Villain is 27/21/3.8. Large Sample. Stealing 50% OTB. Cbet flop/turn/river 65/37/82. Since his turn cbet is so low I feel like I can fold here, but I'm concerned about this spot in general. I also have a note that he gave up turn with picked up equity.


Merge Network $3.00/$6.00 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players - View hand 1744638
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

UTG: $967.40
CO: $205.00
BTN: $597.00
SB: $313.00
Hero (BB): $649.05

Pre Flop: ($9.00) Hero is BB with J A
2 folds, BTN raises to $12.00, 1 fold, Hero calls $6

I will both 3bet and call this hand against his min-open, but I think it might be better to 3bet since he only folds around 45% to 3b OTB. 4bets 13%. OTOH, I don't mind having this hand in my defending range.

Flop: ($27.00) A 6 9 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $18.00, Hero calls $18

Standard call.

Turn: ($63.00) T (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $42.00, Hero calls $42

Even with his turn cbet so low, I still think this has to be an easy call given that it is BTN vs BB and he knows that I will be calling with a wide range against his min open.

River: ($147.00) 4 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $200.00, Hero folds

When the flush gets there he knows I can never have a flush in this spot. He probably also expects me to raise OTF with my sets and 2 pr. I would 3b AK, AQ and he might expect me to 3b AJ-AT. So basically the only hands I can have here are like AJ, AT, possibly A4 and some other Ax combos. I guess maybe T9 also. I'm not sure what he is capable of overbetting for value here, but I would guess all flushes, sets, and some 2 pr, so he can a have a lot of value hands. I'm just worried about getting exploited in this spot. Do we just have to accept that board ran out poorly for our range and fold? What hands are you calling with here?


Final Pot: $147.00
BTN wins $145.00
(Rake: $2.00)

U moved to 600? Good stuff. People don't play this well at micros so he could be exploiting you but it is a really tough call and I'd fold as well.

U moved to 600? Good stuff. People don't play this well at micros so he could be exploiting you but it is a really tough call and I'd fold as well.

Rarely. I play probably about 75% at 200NL, but I will play 400-600, if there is a good game and I'm feeling good about how I'm playing. I basically just game select 100-600 for right now. A lot of the player pool ends up being some of the same regs across stakes, so I don't think the games are a whole lot different when there is a fish or two at the table.

Gross f'ing spot. Sorry I can't help, just fried all the brain power I had left for the night thinking about this for the last 1/2 an hour and still can't come to a good conclusion on what to do lol. Your probably not making very much $ no matter what your decision even if your right. That being said I'd resort to calling with the top of my range if I thought there was a chance he could do this as a bluff and buy myself a nice note. I think in general here not very many people would ever do that with sets or two pair and it would be hard for me to give him credit for being that good of a hand reader to do it in the 15sec or w/e he has to decide whilist playing X tables, I have yet to play NL600 though.

It's just a really shitty spot for us and we have to grudge fold and wait for a better position to fight back or bluff catch.

Also for the love of god 3bet for value pre-flop vs a min-raise, that isn't a "stylistic" decision that's just bad.

It's tough, I agree, and maybe I'm leveling myself but; It's a good river card for him to bluff. Your range is not very strong in this spot and he probably knows that. So, if he is ever bluffing here, why would he do that with an overbet? If this is the perfect card for him to get you of a mediocre hand why would he risk that much if 110 might be enough? This guys is just betting only very strong hands and strong draws on the turn and almost always fired a 3rd barrel when he best the turn. I think he can easily have sets and flushes and is trying to look bluffy. He is never barreling 3 streets with a worse pair and his draws made it. His low turn barrel makes it easy for us here.

i dont hate preflop call if we have an idea of how to exploit him post. plus the idea we have this dynamic is somewhat in place calling pre here may be good for balancing imo. we aren't just calling just to spike a hand right? Just for giggles,( and bc im bad and dont know the answer) what kind of hands do we prefer to call here rather then 3 bet? which ones are we more inclined to 3 bet? I assume this guy plays laggy reggy preflop and otf right?

. He is never barreling 3 streets with a worse pair and his draws made it.

You have no way of knowing that, and you're probably wrong for that matter because it makes total sense for him to turn the bottom of his showdown value into a bluff here since we're literally dead to Ax.

Ok I agree with you it could be possible but really a very small % of the time. His turn barrel is really low imo so it makes more sense for him to barrel strong made hands and strong draws and check behind weaker hands on the turn. I mean A8/A7 are probably the only Aces we beat on the river. But I could be wrong and he is turning something like A2 into a bluff now..

Idk I could be way off here but his river bet seems to be more consistent with bluffs rather than value. this river might be a good spot to block bet not sure tho. his river bet size seems like he wants to get you off your hand like he is trying to bet you out of the pot. I tank call and not too upset if he has you beat.

disclaimer..I am still learning..

Ok I agree with you it could be possible but really a very small % of the time. His turn barrel is really low imo so it makes more sense for him to barrel strong made hands and strong draws and check behind weaker hands on the turn. I mean A8/A7 are probably the only Aces we beat on the river. But I could be wrong and he is turning something like A2 into a bluff now..

You have to ask yourself what kind of hands does villain bet the turn with, for instance it makes a lot more sense for villain to check behind A2 on the turn and tripple barrel 6x to the river. A small turn bet% doesn't tell you whether or not he has a value heavy range, a bluff heavy range, a pot controlling range or a lot of checked behind bottom pairs and draws etc. by just the number.

i dont hate preflop call if we have an idea of how to exploit him post. plus the idea we have this dynamic is somewhat in place calling pre here may be good for balancing imo. we aren't just calling just to spike a hand right? Just for giggles,( and bc im bad and dont know the answer) what kind of hands do we prefer to call here rather then 3 bet? which ones are we more inclined to 3 bet? I assume this guy plays laggy reggy preflop and otf right?

The villain is min-raising the button, therefore he has a higher call 3bet% based on the increased stack depth and having a depolarized 3bet value range to take advantage of that is important, especially if he doesn't have a high 4bet% to discourage us from depolarizing.

As far as hands we'd stop 3betting or folding in order to call, stuff like SCs are now an easy to decision.

I understand what you say, we could create that low turn bet % with a lot of different plays. (checking flush draws, betting underpairs etc.) But you agree that a big part of that low turn barrel % contains FD's, sets, 2p's, no matter what type of regular he is? thats just standard. I agree with you he can have some bluffs on the river but I think not enough to make a call.

I'd agree the most logical hands for him to have in his turn barreling range are sets, 2 pair, Ace with a higher kicker, maybe Ace with a lower kicker and draws, but that doesn't mean he can't have things like top pair and draws in his check back range or bottom pair in his 3xbarrel range etc.

We don't want to assume what he can have, we want to assume what he can't have to a certain extent.

I don't think it's a "standard call" on the flop, I think it is a "standard c/r". just because you are "defending passiv" preflop doesn't mean that you have to go into calldown mode, especially if he is rarely dbl barreling. you miss on a lot of value if you c/c

as played easy fold, turn is a thinish call iMo