Luisma
22 posts
Joined 04/2008
Time Link to 00:20:49
Hello Fiend and Blah, what do you guys think about a turn overbet, I've been experimenting a bit w that, mostly w decent semibluffs. It puts a lot of pressure on the caller because you are now threatening more of his stack and there is still a street to act, I've been mixing a few river overbets (small ob less than 1.3 pot AND without overbetting the turn) in this spots when everything misses and I have AJ or better, and I been getting a few calls, mostly villains talk themself into calling since you make obv that his hand is a bluffcatcher and you "are bluffing a ton when everything misses". Given your reads on this villain I think is ill advice to bluff him often, I would incline myself to go for thinner value and try to force him into more mistakes with my betsizes.
Posted over 1 year ago
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blah234
2456 posts
Joined 12/2009
Hello Fiend and Blah, what do you guys think about a turn overbet, I've been experimenting a bit w that, mostly w decent semibluffs. It puts a lot of pressure on the caller because you are now threatening more of his stack and there is still a street to act, I've been mixing a few river overbets (small ob less than 1.3 pot AND without overbetting the turn) in this spots when everything misses and I have AJ or better, and I been getting a few calls, mostly villains talk themself into calling since you make obv that his hand is a bluffcatcher and you "are bluffing a ton when everything misses". Given your reads on this villain I think is ill advice to bluff him often, I would incline myself to go for thinner value and try to force him into more mistakes with my betsizes.
I think overbet is just a leveling spot which you can use but using it often vs good villains will not increase the EV of your play. Bigger bluff will make villain fold more often but it has to work more often as well to show a profit. It's all a math question and if villain understands math overbetting should not increase your EV much.
Posted over 1 year ago
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SomethingSpecial
20 posts
Joined 01/2011
In the last hand you say you like raising more, but what do we rep?
I guess we dont flat 22/33/KK here much, dont have K3, K2 very often, so we rep very little isnt it?
Dont we rep a wider value range by floating the flop?
Posted over 1 year ago
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blah234
2456 posts
Joined 12/2009
In the last hand you say you like raising more, but what do we rep?
I guess we dont flat 22/33/KK here much, dont have K3, K2 very often, so we rep very little isnt it?
Dont we rep a wider value range by floating the flop?
why do we need 2 pair+ to "value" raise? If villain is only playing back with TP+ then you can raise ATC because they fold too much. If they play back with wider range then stuff like TP and good FD for "value" because you got over 50% equity vs their range.
Posted over 1 year ago
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ilboss77
14 posts
Joined 05/2011
blah234
2456 posts
Joined 12/2009
D3rJack
444 posts
Joined 02/2010
Time Link to 00:34:38
What would be your thoguhs if you would face a 3bet on the turn after you raised?
Would you be worrying or just think that is is unlikely he has a strong hand b/c of his small turnbetsize and that he could spazz out b/c you are at least perceived kinda capped to 2Pairs at the best?
If you would not worry abou that, what would be your exact turplay when he would choose a normal 3bet-size like 2,25x?
Posted over 1 year ago
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blah234
2456 posts
Joined 12/2009
What would be your thoguhs if you would face a 3bet on the turn after you raised?
Would you be worrying or just think that is is unlikely he has a strong hand b/c of his small turnbetsize and that he could spazz out b/c you are at least perceived kinda capped to 2Pairs at the best?
If you would not worry abou that, what would be your exact turplay when he would choose a normal 3bet-size like 2,25x?
Still not folding either way. I might just call if villian bet bigger hoping that he'd keep barreling the river.
Posted over 1 year ago
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mystake
42 posts
Joined 08/2010
Why do you like 3betting so much better from the BTN w/KQ?
THIS!
It's because we should have a wider 3 betting range vs the button, and hence expect to get called lighter that a 3bet is more suitable in this spot?
Posted over 1 year ago
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mystake
42 posts
Joined 08/2010
Time Link to 00:34:08
Lets say you have some weaker holdings on this spot on the turn. If you then elect to raise, thinking he is bluffing often, would you fire the river again if you get called?
Not too sure what "weaker holdings" would be in this spot though, maybe a FD, TT-QQ? How wide would you be floating his flopraise here in the first place?
Posted over 1 year ago
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mystake
42 posts
Joined 08/2010
Time Link to 00:43:29
In the ATs hand on the flop. If you raise here, what cards will you be barreling on the turn-river?
5x/4x bet turn, and also bet the river if the flush gets there?
Flush hits the turn, bet bet T-R?
Other cards just give up since his range mainly will be Kx when calling a flopraise?
Posted over 1 year ago
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FoxwoodsFiend
345 posts
Joined 10/2007
Lets say you have some weaker holdings on this spot on the turn. If you then elect to raise, thinking he is bluffing often, would you fire the river again if you get called?
Not too sure what "weaker holdings" would be in this spot though, maybe a FD, TT-QQ? How wide would you be floating his flopraise here in the first place?
Maybe bluff-raising a FD is a good play, but even talking about what to do if I choose to raise TT-QQ is crazy because I would simply never do it. But generally if I raise here I would fire if called b/c my raise would be such that I could keep him in with lots of draws that fold as well as some weak made hands. \
Posted over 1 year ago
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FoxwoodsFiend
345 posts
Joined 10/2007
In the ATs hand on the flop. If you raise here, what cards will you be barreling on the turn-river?
5x/4x bet turn, and also bet the river if the flush gets there?
Flush hits the turn, bet bet T-R?
Other cards just give up since his range mainly will be Kx when calling a flopraise?
This is about right, I think his range is wider than Kx to call the flop raise but since you beat a lot of his speculative straight draw peels I wouldn't really barrel here
Posted over 1 year ago
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donkrx
68 posts
Joined 02/2012
Time Link to 00:09:43
Thinking about jamming here is forcing it. I know that I've been in these spots before many times and what I've eventually realized is that the real reason I would sometimes consider 3bet jam here is because the situation is simply frustrating. It's just this thought of "how could I possibly be folding this hand here... I have a strong hand, its blind vs blind and all the draws missed". It feels too weak to just fold - like we would be hardcore exploitable if he saw what we were folding - but the truth of the matter is that people don't bluff in spots like this because they don't expect you to fold a pair of aces when all the draws miss.
Also, what makes jamming worse for us is that if he does have a legit hand here there's almost no way he's folding it to a jam.
Posted about 1 year ago
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donkrx
68 posts
Joined 02/2012
Time Link to 00:17:27
Why are we bluffing this guy when he has called us down with 2nd pair a couple times for 3 streets? You basically explain how he's being a station and yet we're trying to get him off 2nd pair....... along that line I don't think betting even full pot would get him off of JT here... it would have to be 1.5x pot and even then I think he'd just convince himself that overbet = bluff.
Posted about 1 year ago
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