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Poker Video: No Limit Hold'Em by FoxwoodsFiend (Mid Stakes)

FWF - when you talk about making it 4x when stealing from the SB, I understand your logic that smaller stack to pot ratio's diminish the value of position, but when comparing a 3x open to a 4x open, does it really make that big of a difference in terms of how well the BB can utilize his position to his advantage? It's not like the stack to pot ratios of 3bet pots. Isn't there still plenty of "room" for him to operate and take advantage of position, but now the pot is bigger such that the edge he gains from being in position is worth more in EV to him (and by the same token our EV is worse).

I guess a good example to better illustrate what I'm asking is: when you are 300bb deep and the button opens, 3betting from the blinds diminishes the stack to pot ratio, but it hardly diminishes the value of position and in fact bloating the pot oop when that deep helps the player in position.

No one commented how bad the line the villain made with K8 in the 2nd to last hand. He hits top two and slow-plays even though there are a bunch of draws, then value bets his 2 pair on the river when the flush gets there. Then when he gets shipped on decides to call it off too.

Assuming the villain with K8 doesn't raise flop and checks turn, shouldn't he be checking that river? It's very hard for him to represent any bluffs so then why is he a betting a marginal 2 pair hand there? If he bets there what worse hands does he expect to call? Every hand that is calling a bet will value bet themselves, and even some hands that might fold to his river lead might value bet if checked too. Checking also gives Morgauth the opportunity to fire the river to represent the flush since the villain's hand looks very weak in that spot. In addition, it provides balance because if you're always checking your KJ type hands there and betting every better hand you can be exploited pretty easily.

Time Link to 00:20:04

hey FWF just a quick question

about when you said that people dont have a balanced range in spots where they normally have bluff catchers instead they have weaker range and just call down more. is that necessarily a bad strategy to have? do you really need to have ak in your 3 bet c/c c/c c/c range on axx boards? or can you just do it with kk and j10 and hands like that? also if the answer is yes that you should have ak in that range im thinking hu mostly when the three bettor is oop how often should you do it?

cheers

Sick how these 3 guys at the bottom have the exact same stats... weird.. just a coincidence but weird..

Wow, that can't be coincidence. Something fishy going on there for sure.

I disagree with raising to 4x in the SB fwiw, reducing the SPR post-flop is less important than increasing the dead money pre-flop in a seat where you should be raising 30 to 50% of your hands OOP and expecting to get 3bet all fucking day.

I don't think there's much of a difference between 3x or 2.5xing the button in terms of your steal success rate and their 3bet sizing, but if you start 2xing your button I guarantee you that your steal success rate is going to drop significantly vs. anyone who plays HU or understands the math in the BB, and you'll have to get use to playing deeper pots and more hands IP vs 3bets because their 3bet sizing usually goes from 10x vs 3x, 9x vs 2.5x to bet pot vs 2x which totally changes the SPR in these confrontations.

I'm not against min-raising your button in 6max as a strategy, I did it for a long time and still use it as an adjustment to aggressive 3bettors, but min raising your button in 6max isn't the same thing as min-raising in tournaments because your opponents wont be anywhere near as inclined to pass up the positive EV of playing marginal hands OOP in favor of "survivorship" in pay out structure.

hey FWF just a quick question

about when you said that people dont have a balanced range in spots where they normally have bluff catchers instead they have weaker range and just call down more. is that necessarily a bad strategy to have? do you really need to have ak in your 3 bet c/c c/c c/c range on axx boards? or can you just do it with kk and j10 and hands like that? also if the answer is yes that you should have ak in that range im thinking hu mostly when the three bettor is oop how often should you do it?

cheers

In HU or 6max it's a huge leveling spot because certain villains always make the same assumption he is so you can use your AK to check/call, check/call, check/call with massive implied odds vs villain's air. Ranges aren't static either, because there aren't enough value hands to balance every line by default so sometimes you'll have to bet, bet, bet or call, call, call or bet, call, call with AK and which line you take depends on game flow. The problem tho' is that in situations like Blah mentioned, villains tend to only check/call with the bottom of their range first and never bother to use strong hands to protect those lines first or ever bother to balance it at all when the implied odds for doing so are significant vs other regulars because they will barrel your perceived range (which they view as capped) without mercy.

Wow, that can't be coincidence. Something fishy going on there for sure.

Those 3 guys play differently so I don't think they're all bots.

Time Link to 00:44:12

I have a couple of questions concerning whether or not to bet the river if he checks.
I wouldn't assume that villain bets hands like 44 on the turn. Why do you think he might have those? I usually just check/fold them on the turn. Is that too tight?
You don't mention Qx. Is Qx such an easy check/call on the river? I would think that the only thing that missed are clubs and 54s or is it standard for hero to call twice with hands like A4o and bet the river?

Thanks a lot. I'm really looking forward to this series.

I have a couple of questions concerning whether or not to bet the river if he checks.
I wouldn't assume that villain bets hands like 44 on the turn. Why do you think he might have those? I usually just check/fold them on the turn. Is that too tight?
You don't mention Qx. Is Qx such an easy check/call on the river? I would think that the only thing that missed are clubs and 54s or is it standard for hero to call twice with hands like A4o and bet the river?

Thanks a lot. I'm really looking forward to this series.

People who like to 2 barrel doesn't need equity to 2 barrel otherwise they wouldn't be 2 barreling alot. Sure Qx can be in villain's range to c/c but that doesn't make betting the river -EV. Since we can't see villain's hole cards, we can only play vs their range.

It's unbelievable that 5/10 reg can play a hand this way. Have you noticed an inclination of people when tables break down to spazz out more?

What would you do if a flush hit on the river?

If a flush hits I'd check back. Not only is he very likely to have flushes but it's also way less likely that, if he doesn't have a flush, whatever weak hand he has will call the river given how strong our range will be on a flush river

FWF - when you talk about making it 4x when stealing from the SB, I understand your logic that smaller stack to pot ratio's diminish the value of position, but when comparing a 3x open to a 4x open, does it really make that big of a difference in terms of how well the BB can utilize his position to his advantage? It's not like the stack to pot ratios of 3bet pots. Isn't there still plenty of "room" for him to operate and take advantage of position, but now the pot is bigger such that the edge he gains from being in position is worth more in EV to him (and by the same token our EV is worse).

I guess a good example to better illustrate what I'm asking is: when you are 300bb deep and the button opens, 3betting from the blinds diminishes the stack to pot ratio, but it hardly diminishes the value of position and in fact bloating the pot oop when that deep helps the player in position.

I don't think it makes a huge difference, but it's a slight consideration in favor of 4xing (as is the increased fold equity-it's not like you're going to make a great bright-line distinction between 4x and 3x, or between 3x and 2.5x or 2.5x and 2x, so it's not exactly clear that 4x is better than 3x, but it seems slightly better. Of course, it depends on BB's tendencies but without reads on how they play in BB vs SB vs different raise sizes, I'd default to 4x)

hey FWF just a quick question

about when you said that people dont have a balanced range in spots where they normally have bluff catchers instead they have weaker range and just call down more. is that necessarily a bad strategy to have? do you really need to have ak in your 3 bet c/c c/c c/c range on axx boards? or can you just do it with kk and j10 and hands like that? also if the answer is yes that you should have ak in that range im thinking hu mostly when the three bettor is oop how often should you do it?

cheers

I think in general it's very bad to play OOP with a clearly-defined range against a good opponent where you end up having an obvious bluff-catcher and your opponent can value bet perfectly and bluff perfectly because there's no uncertainty as to what he's up against. As for how often, I don't know-it depends on each board how often you barrel since you have to balance your aggressive lines too, but I check TP hands on dry boards OOP fairly often (like probably 1/2 the time-ish)

Time Link to 00:29:48

I dont think that 3b 18 percent isnt that much I would say its really a ton if you an opponent does that when you are deep.

Sick how these 3 guys at the bottom have the exact same stats... weird.. just a coincidence but weird..

It is just a pretty common style to play and this happens on merge in 200-1k games often since the games are filled with a variety of good and bad tags who all play 19-24/14-18/5-9 styles. Those 3 guys you pointed out are all regs and although I don't know them personally I have no reason to believe anything "funny" is going on other than they have decided that this play style is effective in these games.

GENERAL! Great choice!