Mid Stakes Shorthanded NL Poker Forums

ok im reading it, thank you, but does it really apply here, when we would have more bluffs than 7x or strong ax?

If we decide to overbet it'd be exploitative and not coming from GTO reasoning. Balancing is something you do in defense against someone better than you, to minimize villains edge, when you don't know how to beat him. When you do know how to beat him balancing works in villains favor and you should pretty much just go for max vacuum EV in every spot.

thx gc for ur posts and the link to 2+2 interesting stuff

talking about we shud maybe be overbetting 7x twice here...

what about villain having some fd`s in his range .. isn`t it better to bet a "usual" size on the turn and overbet rivers? overbeting turn makes villain fold all of his flush draws doesn`t it?

and doesn`t betting "usual" size on the turn and overbetting river have the same purpose (as a bluff) as does overbetting turn and river?
i really don`t see villain folding any Ax on the turn wheter we overbet or not
- but i see villain folding some Ax vs a -turnbet + river overbet-

and while im writing this i see if villains always calling a turnbet no matther if we overbet or not we maybe shud overbet 7x on turns--- *confused*

I really dislike overbet leading into the single card the villain is most likely to have hit with a polarized Cbetting range on a dry board and/or delay Cbet bluff on, provided we defend vs. CO raises with AJo, and maybe as strong as AQo or as weak as ATo, we can easily represent a wide value check/raising range vs. his check back range and make more money by check/raising.

Overbetting, in my mind, doesn't make any sense on this card and check/raise turn, bet river is way more consistent. I remember having this argument before in the Ansky/Blah video threads and Ansky pretty much agreed with me there as well.

good discussion, thanks all for the input

Definitely leak

First of all there are spots where it's theoretically correct to overbet, not just to exploit. Check http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/19/high-stakes-pl-nl/question-about-over-betting-685742/

And if overbetting twice as a bluff is bad because we don't rep anything and thus get called down light or induce action, then it must be great for value.

I get the maths behind it but what i dont get your overbet size.

Accorindly to the examples you stated you should only overbet shove....
When is it correct to overbet 2x, 3x or 5x?

EDIT: nm read the whole thread

I get the maths behind it but what i dont get your overbet size.

Accorindly to the examples you stated you should only overbet shove....
When is it correct to overbet 2x, 3x or 5x?

Typically whenever the opponent pot controls, i.e he Cbets flop, checks behind turn and you 2x the river. There's also some people who overbet turns in single raised pots as the PFR on scare cards, where the overbet is sized to create a PSB for the river or overbet turns in 3bet pots AI.

Those are the most common spots, you'll find some other cases like open shoving turns and rivers as the check-raiser or check-raising, calling a click back and then open shoving the turn or variants of that line based on calling a raise in a single or 3bet pot as the PFR and then open shoving the turn or a goof ball line like leading the flop, calling their raise and then open shoving on them.

Some people also overbet turns 2x whenever opponents check behind the flop with polarized cbetting ranges, but I don't think that really makes as much sense as betting the turn and then overbetting the river.

In the examples you quoted, the importance isn't so much on overbetting as it is on closing the action.