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Poker Video: No Limit Hold'Em by Grindcore (Mid Stakes)

Having a thinking player on your left, how would you play him differently if he were playing 4 tables vs 10 tables?

In general the 10 tablers are not thinking players, they're on autopilot. They might be capable of thinking, but they're simply not doing it.

Against thinking players, I assume they're gonna make adjustments to anything out of the ordinary that I show. So if I show down super light double c/c on Axxx, I assume they're gonna 2barrel 2nd pair for example. So each time I show down something out of the ordinary, I write a note on them saying that they saw me do that. From there on I adjust to their adjustment without having seen it. If they show down a hand proving they clearly didn't adjust (like check KQ on AQx BU v BB) I'll also take a note that he doesn't adjust well and go back to calling light in this example.

Hi GC

Table 4 with AJss. When i am on this spot vs a player like him that 2nd barrels a lot i use to fold Ah on Q88 OOP just because he seems the type of player that will be firing 2nd barrels on bricks. Do you think i can float here even against a player that use the stretagy of double barreling a lot? (my hand can't stand a lot of action if i don't hit a J, A, T or K)

If he double barrels a lot, you should call him twice and it wouldn't be close. Especially if your perceived flop calling range is Ax heavy like it was on this board. I'm actually a bit unsure of that turn c/f. I think at the time I thought he'd 3barrel a lot there actually, or maybe barrel underpairs to the board to get value/protect vs draws and A high, which is why I folded turn. If I don't think I can c/c flop I think c/r is better because it's one of the highest equity hands you're folding.

Helo Grindcore !

Final episode was cool, I like the spot, when you folded your nut flush - yeah you were right, he reps a full house.

Now I would like to say thank you for the whole series, I really enjoyed it. Not only enjoyed it, but also learned a lot. I had a huge problem with my Non SD Redline, I was constantly losing ~~ -10 bb/100 on it, I even thought about coaching people how to make your redline nosedive Although it doesn't make much more sense, I was really good at it ;p
Later it was slightly better, maybe -7 bb/100.

This month I am playing fully focused on what I am doing, the sample is super small, but I think that we can draw some conclusions from this graph:

http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/9835/march2011.png
(@NL100, got some badbeats and coolers, today I had a +5.5 BI session).

________________________________________________________________

I want to point out what I have learned from these series:

1. I increased my river calling frequency
"Weak tight", "Monster under the bed syndrome" - these were my attributes. I was folding way too much. You said something like this "you called him on the flop, called on the turn and now you are folding on the river and you learned NOTHING" - this is gold IMO. Of course I don't want to become a massive river calling station, but when I have to be right ~~ 30% of the time and I feel that it might be break even or slightly -EV, then I prefer calling, especially against unknowns during the first hands in our match, because showdowns give us tons of information about his bet sizing and general thought process.

2. I am taking down better notes on my opponents
Earlier I got used to write everything like this:
- 3bets OOP 2.5-9 with AQo, cbets with air, c/f UI
- bla bla
- bla bla

After 8+ lines I stopped even reading my notes - TL ; DR.

Now I have a new system. The note from above should look like this:

NL100 - 10.03.2011 - 6max
[PF] 3-bet OOP 2.5-9 /w AQo
[F] C-bets /w air in 3-bet pot
[T] c/f UI in 3-bet pot
________________________
+ a color label. Red for the best and super aggro regs, orange for good regs, yellow for regs with leaks.
Green is for passive fish, light blue for medium aggro fish and the purple is for aggro donks. Dark blue is reserved for the biggest fish on the planet


3. Thinking in ranges
I knew what is it or rather I thought I knew...Definitely I improved this skill.

4. I am no longer afraid of making moves on my opponents
Wonder how does it work? Try it. Think you can take this pot down? Stab it. Is overbet your last hope to win the pot by bluff and you feel it might work? Go for it. A Pair of Balls beats everything.

5. And probably many many more, but I can't remind anything right now


Thanks one more time man. Would like to see the 2nd season or to get into a study group with you as a leader

Best regards,
Mati

Grindcore you should write a bible! Your videoes are just the best on deucescracked without a doubt, hope to see another series from you

The videoes on nl50-nl100 (my stakes) were awesome!

Time Link to 00:16:23


do you usually have time to figure out all the possible thought processes that could have led to an opponent's decision for every showdown hand while playing 6 tables?

Time Link to 00:16:23


do you usually have time to figure out all the possible thought processes that could have led to an opponent's decision for every showdown hand while playing 6 tables?

It's easier on 4 than on 6. That's why I prefer 4tabling and will only play more if there are fish at lots of tables. But usually it's kinda easy to figure them out as most regulars are very straight forward. The hard spots require more thoughts, as at NL200 and under there are simply less opponents capable of putting you in hard spots so thats why you've not seen as much at the videos I did at lower stakes. I mean, I try do the same thing in every spot, but realize there's 1 correct answer a lot faster.

hey grindcore, keyser from twoplustwo here. I think your play with J6o against the whale is terrible. care to elaborate, thx

hey grindcore, keyser from twoplustwo here. I think your play with J6o against the whale is terrible. care to elaborate, thx

Ok, I'll go through it and my assumptions and concepts step by step. I'll number them so it's easier to discuss the point where we don't agree.

1) If you were a super user and could see his exact holding, you'd have played the hand the exact same way.

2) I had a confirmed timing tell on the fish. All his snap actions so far had been with air, and all his actions where he had something have taken a few seconds. It's only 20-30 hands or so, but the tell was 100% accurate so far, so it's a good assumption to base your play on.

3) Raising wide vs fish that play fit/fold is good, even when OOP (like a fish with 60% fcbet). If you hit the flop you're obviously gonna profit post flop (on average anyway), and when you miss you can make an extremely +EV cbet. A hand with ~42.5% equity vs his calling range is gonna be strong enough to raise OOP. JTo for example has 43.5% equity vs a ~40% range.

4) J6o has 42.5% equity vs a 75% range and is therefore playable vs a 75 VPIP fit/fold fish, like JTo is vs a more common 40 VPIP.

5) His fcbet was 0 so he's obviously calling the flop with air. The timing tell allows me to know whether he hit or not though. So let's compare the merits of barreling this player to cbetting against a 60% fold to cbet fit/fold fish (which is obviously +EV to do). Vs the 60% fold there are 2 possible outcomes: we cbet, he folds, and we win the size of the flop pot 60% of the time, or he calls and we lose the size our our cbet.

So vs the fit/fold, the results are 60% win flop pot, 40% lose cbet.

Vs this 0% fcbet player, we'll know whether he has hit the flop or not based on his timing. When he hits we give up, when he misses we barrel. So 2 possible outcomes: 60% of the time he misses the flop, and we win the the flop pot + his cbet call (+ his turn call if he snapcalls twice and we shove river). And 40% of the time he tank-calls and we give up.

So vs the 0% fold, the results re 60% win flop pot + more, and 40% lose cbet.

Therefore it's actually preferable to play vs a 0% fcbet than a 60% fcbet if you have the timing tell. Sure it's higher variance, but the EV of the situation is higher.

6) He had minraised once before, which was a snap minraise, and I shoved over it and he folded. Therefore given reads, it makes complete sense to shove over the turn minraise. Assuming he's gonna call it with air is ridiculous. And even if he does that, he might call it with some draws that we're actually beating.


I think if you agree with each individual step, you'll also agree that the play is good. So let me know which one(s) you disagree with. Or if you now agree the play is good (or at least defensible), let me know too

2) unfortunately we can't argue these timing tells, which is the entire crux of your play, since you showed us the hands in the replayer. it's not an honest video to justify everything with timing and not show us the timing, but assure us this is true

3) he's obv not playing fit or fold

4) pre equity obv doesnt matter

5) luckily for you this can all come back to some magical timing tell but none of us can see it since YOU SHOWED US THE HANDS IN A REPLAYER

2) unfortunately we can't argue these timing tells, which is the entire crux of your play, since you showed us the hands in the replayer. it's not an honest video to justify everything with timing and not show us the timing, but assure us this is true

3) he's obv not playing fit or fold

4) pre equity obv doesnt matter

5) luckily for you this can all come back to some magical timing tell but none of us can see it since YOU SHOWED US THE HANDS IN A REPLAYER

3) no, but if I know when he missed, I can just keep barreling and eventually win an even larger pot. Like if he's fit/fold on the turn, cbetting is good. And if his fcbet on the turn is also 0, then 3barreling him is gonna be fantastic. Unless he also calls river with air, in which case I need a hand, but him calling the river with air would be kinda silly, and he has already been shoven on and folded so he's probably not the type of fish to do it even if calling with air would be a common thing.

4) I think it does, because you obviously prefer valuebetting over bluffing. The more equity you have preflop, the more often you'll be in a spot where you can valuebet postflop. Postflop my preflop equity obviously doesn't matter anymore, but when I decided to raise preflop it was a major factor. You didn't agree with the J6o preflop raise. If equity truly doesn't matter, then why are you raising AA and not J6o?


2/5) So you do agree that if I'm not lying about the timing tells, the play is good? Because in that case it simply comes down to whether you believe me or not. If you don't believe me, let me ask you this: I beat 5/10, do you really think I'm shoving over turn minraises from fish with air for no reason?

look, I'm not saying you're lying about it. i'm saying it's impossible to have a worthwhile dialogue about a hand when everything about it rests on is timing, yet you don't show us the fucking timing.

like I can't argue anything with you. Because you can just say you it was timing. Great. So what's the point?

congrats on playing 5/10 though that's sik

look, I'm not saying you're lying about it. i'm saying it's impossible to have a worthwhile dialogue about a hand when everything about it rests on is timing, yet you don't show us the fucking timing.

like I can't argue anything with you. Because you can just say you it was timing. Great. So what's the point?

congrats on playing 5/10 though that's sik

By snap call I litteraly mean snap call. A second or less. When you see it, you get a distinct feeling of instantness. I understand you can't see it yourself in the video, but you probably know what I mean by this right?

His non-snap plays took 5 seconds or more, where he clearly took some time to think. The contrast between the snap actions and non snap actions was very strong.

And for the analysis of the hand it doesn't even really matter what his exact timings were. It's about the underlying thought process, so that the next time you get in a spot yourself where you feel you have a timing tell, you can use it.

Maybe I shouldn't have assumed everyone understood what I meant by the snap actions. It's something I pay a lot of attention to while playing but most players don't, so I can see how this might be a problem. If anyone else had the same problem with me using the term, please let me know so I can try to be more specific about it in future videos.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

and i'm out. peace and GL to you grindcore. I sound abrasive but it's not personal.

look, I'm not saying you're lying about it. i'm saying it's impossible to have a worthwhile dialogue about a hand when everything about it rests on is timing, yet you don't show us the fucking timing.

like I can't argue anything with you. Because you can just say you it was timing. Great. So what's the point?

congrats on playing 5/10 though that's sik

Timing tells can be valuable, when you have a reliable read you can make money with 2 blank cards.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

and i'm out. peace and GL to you grindcore. I sound abrasive but it's not personal.

I completely understand. My style was shaped by thinking about stuff for myself and strongly disagreeing with a lot of things I saw respected instructors do in their videos. If a fish could explain to me why he's limping 40% of his hand and have really good arguments I can't falsify, I'll start limping 40% myself. If I feel I can falsify them, but not change the fishes mind in the process, I'll stop taking advice from him. That's why I think discussion is so important. If you don't agree with my views on poker and also can't seem to make me change my mind about them, I'm simply not a suitable instructor for you, and I won't take any offense at all about it.