BalugaWhale
997 posts
Joined 01/2008
Here, don't a lot of people think 'I'll call down on non-club turns', which would make this more of a bet? I'd imagine villain folds more of his range on this turn that you're giving him credit for.
now that i know how weak his range could be for flatting my flop raise, it probably was a bet, but I didn't know that at the time
Andrew
Posted over 2 years ago
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rasklol
44 posts
Joined 11/2009
Time Link to 00:11:25
T3 AQo
The hands you mention, that you can get to fold with your cbet, is hands which you are already ahead.
To me it kinda seems (not totally) like the consequense of your cbet is that you get all worse hands to fold and all better hands to continue - most oftenly by calling your cbet.
Let me know if you disagree with the above.
Considering the fact that very many people decide to check back middle pair pocket pairs and so, if you check to them, how do you like to c/c or maybe even CRAI with these stacks on this flop?
Hell a lot of people would even check back weak Kx hands. Also, seeing that this guys is half stacked, minraises and so on, he will probably not be able to handread well enough to see that when you check this dry board it is not with the intention of giving up to a flopbet.
So my Q's boils down to:
1) Do you agree with my thoughts?
2) Do you like c/c og CRAI instead of cbetting?
3) When you cbet and get called - whats your plan on a blank turn?
Posted over 2 years ago
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BalugaWhale
997 posts
Joined 01/2008
Would you ever lead here? (PS - Sorry for all the questions, great vid
)
im torn about it. hes not calling very much w things he's not betting with, and hes unlikely to raise a lot of strong 1-pair things. so nah i think i still like cr better
Posted over 2 years ago
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BalugaWhale
997 posts
Joined 01/2008
T3 AQo
The hands you mention, that you can get to fold with your cbet, is hands which you are already ahead.
To me it kinda seems (not totally) like the consequense of your cbet is that you get all worse hands to fold and all better hands to continue - most oftenly by calling your cbet.
Let me know if you disagree with the above.
Considering the fact that very many people decide to check back middle pair pocket pairs and so, if you check to them, how do you like og c/c og maybe even CRAI with these stacks on this flop?
Hell a lot of people would even check back weak Kx hands. Also, seeing that this guys is half stacked, minraises and so on, he will probably not be able to handread well enough to see that when you check this dry board it is not with the intention of giving up to a flopbet.
So my Q's boils down to:
1) Do you agree with my thoughts?
2) Do you like c/c og CRAI instead of cbetting?
3) When you cbet and get called - whats your plan on a blank turn?
he has a lot of small pair hands i think will fold, so i disagree i can't get better hands to fold.
a lot of his hands also have 2 live cards, which is significant enough equity for me to want to bluff him off it. c/c isn't great because passive guys don't bluff v often. i could c/f and try to get to show down, that's an option.
if im c-betting the flop because i expect him to fold small pairs, and he calls, then i give up, because he shouldnt have small pairs anymore and should have a much stronger range (i.e. fit or fold, he fit)
Andrew
Posted over 2 years ago
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Ass Get to Jigglin
4273 posts
Joined 10/2010
i probably wasn't
2) he can continue to stay aggressive with hands he would fold to a raise, both better and worse
if you expect him to stay aggressive with worse hands (or maybe some non-made hands that have us high carded) on the turn, then does flatting the flop and raising the turn have any merit?
Posted over 2 years ago
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rasklol
44 posts
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BalugaWhale
997 posts
Joined 01/2008
BalugaWhale
997 posts
Joined 01/2008
Dont you think you have to bluff the turn just for the fact that it is a club? If not, would you EVER bluff this turn when called?
What kind of flushdraws (XcXc) would you raise his flopcbet with on this flop, if any?
after seeing that hand, ya, i would bluff a lot of turns now when im called. at the time, though, i imagined he'd fold just about everything that was weak and would be disinclined to fold just about anything after he called the flop.
EDIT: Also, now that i see he's flatting OOP with stuff like this and not reraising, I'd probably be inclined to raise any FD and barrel it on the turn.
Andrew
Andrew
Posted over 2 years ago
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Ass Get to Jigglin
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Ass Get to Jigglin
4273 posts
Joined 10/2010
Time Link to 00:56:55
cant he have AK and 89? so cant he have a lot more value combos than it seems like? JJ-1 combo, 66-3 combos, TT-1 combo, QQ-3 combos, AJ-6 combos, QT-4 combos, QJ-6 combos, AK/89-28 combos, so 52 combos of value hands. also sometimes AA and KK going for thin value (since it seems like a bad bluff spot, he can expect to get looked up a bit lighter and therefore value bet more thinly). do you think he will 3barrel with ~15 combos of total air when you seem to be in bluff catching mode?
Posted over 2 years ago
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Ass Get to Jigglin
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DiggerTheDog
696 posts
Joined 09/2008
ATo bluffcatch on J6JTQ
Andrew : Having played this hand vs Biggie - where you might take a read that villian either v-bets thinly well or thinly badly but either way seeks thin value.
What are the merits to c/r the river?
Given that you can actually have a good number of combos of boats
666 - 3 combos
JT - 6 combos
QJ - 6 combos
And even if it is not a specific good spot - is this the type of read which might incline you to turn bluff-catchers into bluffs in future?
What are some other micro-reads would you need to supplement very thin -value bettor to incline you to look for spots of turning made hands into bluffs?
Posted over 2 years ago
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DiggerTheDog
696 posts
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Ass Get to Jigglin
4273 posts
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Ass Get to Jigglin
4273 posts
Joined 10/2010