Time Link to 00:11:44
Can you explain why its such a big leak for him to be 3b/folding AT/AJ there? Seems pretty reasonable to me
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Time Link to 00:11:44
Can you explain why its such a big leak for him to be 3b/folding AT/AJ there? Seems pretty reasonable to me
noted! Will explain this better in the future. thx for the feedback.
Andrew
thanks for replying, andrew.
at the time i posted that reply i didn't have the time to pick out specific examples. there is one hand where i was curious about your betsizing and rather disappointed that you didn't elaborate.
the hand is at 33:10, K5o against SilentAssassin3 where you turn 2 pair. you pot the river (102 into 105) when the flush gets there. it would seem that a lot of your turn barreling range consists of spade draws, and you can obviously have a lot of combos of spades when you raise the button, along with countless 2 pairs, straights, and some sets. i mean, you raised the button, so you have like all combos of 2 pairs.
when you pot that river, isn't it difficult for him to call with a K, which is presumably a big part of his range? were you trying to level him with your sizing and look super polarized?
i mean, not to be results oriented, but he tank-folded, so i think he folded a K... which is a really bad result for you of course.
thanks again, and i do really enjoy the videos.
Can you explain why its such a big leak for him to be 3b/folding AT/AJ there? Seems pretty reasonable to me
3betting hands when somebody doesnt call worse, but does raise them, but you fold to their raises, is bad.
its not bad to 3b/fold AT/AJ if you have a good idea the guy calls with worse but only 4bets better.
Andrew
My reason for V to be Cbetting those 99 on AJx after UTG open:
- if he checks, his range is face-up and will have to face tough decisions on later streets (like when you overbet a blank turn i.e. or just barrel 2 streets)
- if he checks, it polarizes his Cbetting range and next time in this spot, if his range is polarized I believe it makes playing him easier, any pocket pair becomes a easy call, evaluating his range on later streets seems easier too
-by cbetting he's often getting the dead money from the pot which is never bad
Could you explain to me why am I wrong?
Time Link to 00:24:10
Are we calling the turn to fold to draw completion cards (there are so many on the river) and pretty much fold even when the best cards that hit us come off which is correct b/c like you said, the river is not a bluff if it's dry that often and I really don't see a vbet with worst than aj. Should we fold the turn? Even given that a good opponent is value betting kj and qj still on the turn, maybe at/kt if he thinks you're going to play a draw passively.
If he's bluffing a wet river or a dry river and we call, we'd learn a lot about our opponent, but I think people are more likely to vbet any river a lot more often than they are to bluff it.
This is a tough spot even in position, I think I'd just fold the turn oop. What would be a good river bet sizing when checked to on a dry card? What do you think about an underbet vs something 2/3-3/4th pot?
3betting hands when somebody doesnt call worse, but does raise them, but you fold to their raises, is bad.
its not bad to 3b/fold AT/AJ if you have a good idea the guy calls with worse but only 4bets better.
Andrew
You don't think people will fold better? Maybe at 400NL 3betting MP vs UTG isn't perceived as super strong, but I think at lower stakes people will fold AQ/AJ and strong mid-pairs. He should probably have a 3bet bluffing range there, so why not pick the top of his folding range that has good blockers?
You don't think people will fold better? Maybe at 400NL 3betting MP vs UTG isn't perceived as super strong, but I think at lower stakes people will fold AQ/AJ and strong mid-pairs. He should probably have a 3bet bluffing range there, so why not pick the top of his folding range that has good blockers?
again, he's not bluffing if nobodys folding better, and they're not folding better but AJ/AT is ahead of the guys range, he should prob just flat.
Andrew
My reason for V to be Cbetting those 99 on AJx after UTG open:
- if he checks, his range is face-up and will have to face tough decisions on later streets (like when you overbet a blank turn i.e. or just barrel 2 streets)
- if he checks, it polarizes his Cbetting range and next time in this spot, if his range is polarized I believe it makes playing him easier, any pocket pair becomes a easy call, evaluating his range on later streets seems easier too
-by cbetting he's often getting the dead money from the pot which is never bad
Could you explain to me why am I wrong?
- its about making right choices, not making things easier to play
- 99 isnt the only hand he should be checking on this flop
- dead money means he would've folded his equity but now gets a clean shot at it. however, if villain is behind he almost always stays behind, and if villain is ahead he never folds, and if hes behind but has equity (KQ, lets say), he's not folding, and so we're not collecting dead money.
Andrew
Are we calling the turn to fold to draw completion cards (there are so many on the river) and pretty much fold even when the best cards that hit us come off which is correct b/c like you said, the river is not a bluff if it's dry that often and I really don't see a vbet with worst than aj. Should we fold the turn? Even given that a good opponent is value betting kj and qj still on the turn, maybe at/kt if he thinks you're going to play a draw passively.
If he's bluffing a wet river or a dry river and we call, we'd learn a lot about our opponent, but I think people are more likely to vbet any river a lot more often than they are to bluff it.
This is a tough spot even in position, I think I'd just fold the turn oop. What would be a good river bet sizing when checked to on a dry card? What do you think about an underbet vs something 2/3-3/4th pot?
we're IP in the hand
and ya, i'd fold river to another bet with AJ, but not necessarily with everything I had in that spot.
if I had JT, say, and he checked, id fire out a small v-bet, but i wouldn't expect it to get called SUPER often. I was really interested to see what he was donking with.
Andrew
- its about making right choices, not making things easier to play
- 99 isnt the only hand he should be checking on this flop
- dead money means he would've folded his equity but now gets a clean shot at it. however, if villain is behind he almost always stays behind, and if villain is ahead he never folds, and if hes behind but has equity (KQ, lets say), he's not folding, and so we're not collecting dead money.
Andrew
Thx for replying. Sorry to drag this out, but I guess you didn't explain it clear enough for me. Sorry for being hard to get to
Here are my thoughts on that:
99 obviously isn't the only hand he's checking, but assuming he's polarizing his range, the only hands he is checking are medium value hands, so the best being probably somewhere around JTs (if he even opens that UTG) and the worst something like 77. Because I think we agree he should bet all his air here and all his aces. So his hand range is face-up, and our is completely undefined
Betting sets up a lot of better future spots from my perspective:
-we can't just call down light (his range is unpolarized and has a lot of medium pairs)
-when we fold, we always have equity, at least 2 outs, but sometimes as much as 10 w/KQ or QT
-when we call he can represent a lot of holdings on future streets and easily get us off a better hand because his value range will be wide enough we won't be able to profitably call 3 barrels even w/ a weak A (assuming he 3barrels AQ+ what isn't unreasonable)
So it's ultimately harder for us if he bets unless we're at the top of our range. Sure, we can fight that with bluff raising from time to time, but it doesent mean he isn't aware we can.
Does checking set up any profitable situations?
-he will have to fold without any reads when we 2 barrel after a check, because our value range again will be pretty wide, any J+
-we get 2 streets to realize our equity (i.e. bluffing turn and getting there on the river) River isnt exactly a "free" street assuming we're betting the turn, but we compensate that w/ fold equity.
And just to clarify, I'm not claiming I'm right, you're wrong. Actually, I bet you're probably right and my thought proccess is flawed somewhere, I'd just like to know where
Time Link to 00:24:31
I don't really understand why you continue betting the turn against this opponent when you said he's nitty, and you would employ a fit or fold strategy when defending (or did I misunderstand?). I can see you raising this flop as an immediate steal, since like c/r this flop vs him is like stealing his blinds probably, which you would do over and over.
You mention the Q turn as being a good card to keep barreling, but it's not like you have anything actually, and the nit called your checkraise, and is very likely to call at least one more time. So actually giving up on that river seems bad to me, in the sense that it should be a c/r steal on the flop and give up, or betting 3 streets to rep the flush or better and trips. Maybe AQ.
Then again, playing a FD that way kinda seems bad too, since he's calling most river blanks and folding to flush cards.
Anyway, just giving up after the c/r seems better to me, because if we barrel this gutshot on the turn, we should bet the river flushcard, or we don't ever have a bluffing range, which seems odd since we 2barrel with air.
Time Link to 00:32:00
About the opponent cbetting with 99. The only reason would be to avoid getting bluffed on the turn? All the hands that would have folded can now bet the turn, and he can't really call without a read. Is it that big of a mistake?
About the opponent cbetting with 99. The only reason would be to avoid getting bluffed on the turn? All the hands that would have folded can now bet the turn, and he can't really call without a read. Is it that big of a mistake?
if hes "getting bluffed a lot", why couldn't he call?
I don't really understand why you continue betting the turn against this opponent when you said he's nitty, and you would employ a fit or fold strategy when defending (or did I misunderstand?). I can see you raising this flop as an immediate steal, since like c/r this flop vs him is like stealing his blinds probably, which you would do over and over.
You mention the Q turn as being a good card to keep barreling, but it's not like you have anything actually, and the nit called your checkraise, and is very likely to call at least one more time. So actually giving up on that river seems bad to me, in the sense that it should be a c/r steal on the flop and give up, or betting 3 streets to rep the flush or better and trips. Maybe AQ.
Then again, playing a FD that way kinda seems bad too, since he's calling most river blanks and folding to flush cards.
Anyway, just giving up after the c/r seems better to me, because if we barrel this gutshot on the turn, we should bet the river flushcard, or we don't ever have a bluffing range, which seems odd since we 2barrel with air.
my thought was that he folds down to a T+ to 2 barrels on that card, so he has a T like all the time once he calls the turn bet.
Andrew
Thx for replying. Sorry to drag this out, but I guess you didn't explain it clear enough for me. Sorry for being hard to get toHere are my thoughts on that:
99 obviously isn't the only hand he's checking, but assuming he's polarizing his range, the only hands he is checking are medium value hands, so the best being probably somewhere around JTs (if he even opens that UTG) and the worst something like 77. Because I think we agree he should bet all his air here and all his aces. So his hand range is face-up, and our is completely undefined
Betting sets up a lot of better future spots from my perspective:
-we can't just call down light (his range is unpolarized and has a lot of medium pairs)
-when we fold, we always have equity, at least 2 outs, but sometimes as much as 10 w/KQ or QT
-when we call he can represent a lot of holdings on future streets and easily get us off a better hand because his value range will be wide enough we won't be able to profitably call 3 barrels even w/ a weak A (assuming he 3barrels AQ+ what isn't unreasonable)
So it's ultimately harder for us if he bets unless we're at the top of our range. Sure, we can fight that with bluff raising from time to time, but it doesent mean he isn't aware we can.
Does checking set up any profitable situations?
-he will have to fold without any reads when we 2 barrel after a check, because our value range again will be pretty wide, any J+
-we get 2 streets to realize our equity (i.e. bluffing turn and getting there on the river) River isnt exactly a "free" street assuming we're betting the turn, but we compensate that w/ fold equity.
And just to clarify, I'm not claiming I'm right, you're wrong. Actually, I bet you're probably right and my thought proccess is flawed somewhere, I'd just like to know where
this could probably be summed up as "when your equity is worse than your opponents', nothing seems like its a good play"
but checking flop is much closer to "giving up" than checking to induce.
also a lot of things that you seem to think are auto-flop bets (big draws, weak aces, etc) probably aren't either.![]()
Andrew
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