---

Poker Video: No Limit Hold'Em by FoxwoodsFiend (Mid Stakes)

I am interested in hearing some more discussion on the flop play with the KK hand. We get donked into on the flop and raise. I am curious as to what our plan is if we get 3 bet? Also, why are we talking about this guy as a fish when all we have is 30/20 over a small sample? My thinking is that the raise is bad for a few reasons. First, if he is not a fish then he will be leading to 3 bet/get it in with a range that includes sets, and high equity draws like NFD or Tx of spades. We obviously don't do well against that range where we are crushed or flipping. Next, if he is bluffing or leading for value with a hand Tx hand we really don't need to discourage that and we can use our position to decide how much money goes in and on which street. Thoughts?

My thoughts are that people donk out a lot wider than they used to, it's very annoying the times you don't have anything, and if you let them do it because they know that they won't get popped the times they have marginal hands unless you're nutted or have a huge draw, they can basically get away with donking a weak range and daring you to bluff (which is hard to do often since your button range is extremely extremely wide)

Time Link to 00:07:15

In the AQ hand, isn't there a consideration to who's in the BB? Hielko has the BB marked green, which I imagine is a weaker player. In this spot, I would flat AQ here much more often than I'd 3bet the button if the BB was a fish, especially AQs. But at the limits/site I play, people aren't 4bet bluffing in steal/resteal spots super wide or even calling resteals very wide, so it'd be just putting myself into (what seems like) a 0EV preflop war with a TAG. I'd much rather call and play postflop with someone who will make much worse decisions than I will.

Hey FWF/Hielko,

It is frequently mentioned in the videos (and rightfully so) that with a lot of the hands you raise utg, if a good player calls you IP your life sucks. What are your thoughts on either openlimping your entire range utg (and maybe utg+1) as you have the smallest shot of taking down the blinds and you keep the pot small, or openlimping a balanced strategy then raising some hands that are hard to play in a limped pot or play well in a raised pot (balanced with monsters and weak hands).

(for example, limpraise red and black 22, KK and AA, JTs, limpcalling other hands and losing the minimum when we want to play like AJ and it goes raise/3bet behind us, and then raising like 99-QQ, AQ, multicolor 22, AA and KK, other stuff, you kinda get the point)

Seems nowadays having the lead with all the floating and bluffraising and thin valuebetting and calling and whatnot is not as useful as the old days where most of the reason we were taught to always openraise was to build a pot we could take down with a cbet 2/3 of the time.

Thoughts on this concept?

I think that is bad.

Some hands are maybe hard to play UTG, but your range from that position is still very strong so on average it is good to play big pots. If you limp you will be playing really deep while being oop; shorter effective stacks are better for you. If you limp you give the blinds a free shot at the pot. No need to give people a free shot at realizing their equity when your range is strong.

Time Link to 00:35:14

If this hand was a 3bet pot somehow, where the fish called our 3bet; would you still bet this turn if he would have checked?

For example, fish is sitting in the CO, and he raises to 3bb, we 3bet to 11bb on the button. He calls, pot is ~23bb. He does not donk and we cbet 15bb. He calls. We have 74bb behind, and the pot is now ~53bb. The fish checks on this 3flush turn. Do we bet-fold 26bb, check behind, bet-call/fold 37bb ? Ship even maybe to get a call from AsTx ?

Time Link to 00:18:55

It is quite frankly ridiculous how clearly and concisely FwF can explain quite complex topics like this. Love it.

Time Link to 00:06:05

Do you have any statistics backing up you claim that 98s is a fold in this situation? Or some other more objectivly measurable method than your general feeling of unhappiness? Because I'm not convinced.

Time Link to 00:30:36

sry I dont get that part. You said that it is a bad board to bluff because ppl will call you down because you represent nuts or nothing. so you have to bet nuts some times and check it back sometimes. dont get why you dislike the bet.

Hey FWF/Hielko,

It is frequently mentioned in the videos (and rightfully so) that with a lot of the hands you raise utg, if a good player calls you IP your life sucks. What are your thoughts on either openlimping your entire range utg (and maybe utg+1) as you have the smallest shot of taking down the blinds and you keep the pot small, or openlimping a balanced strategy then raising some hands that are hard to play in a limped pot or play well in a raised pot (balanced with monsters and weak hands).

(for example, limpraise red and black 22, KK and AA, JTs, limpcalling other hands and losing the minimum when we want to play like AJ and it goes raise/3bet behind us, and then raising like 99-QQ, AQ, multicolor 22, AA and KK, other stuff, you kinda get the point)

Seems nowadays having the lead with all the floating and bluffraising and thin valuebetting and calling and whatnot is not as useful as the old days where most of the reason we were taught to always openraise was to build a pot we could take down with a cbet 2/3 of the time.

Thoughts on this concept?

I've thought about this before and have always wanted to experiment with it, but it's too weird and unfamiliar for me so I never did it. I tend to agree with Hielko that I'd rather just open a slightly tighter range than give up getting in money with a strong range though

If this hand was a 3bet pot somehow, where the fish called our 3bet; would you still bet this turn if he would have checked?

For example, fish is sitting in the CO, and he raises to 3bb, we 3bet to 11bb on the button. He calls, pot is ~23bb. He does not donk and we cbet 15bb. He calls. We have 74bb behind, and the pot is now ~53bb. The fish checks on this 3flush turn. Do we bet-fold 26bb, check behind, bet-call/fold 37bb ? Ship even maybe to get a call from AsTx ?

Ship all in to get calls from hands that heroically put us on semibluffs. You can't really put him on a flush after he check/calls

Do you have any statistics backing up you claim that 98s is a fold in this situation? Or some other more objectivly measurable method than your general feeling of unhappiness? Because I'm not convinced.

Nope. I don't think you'll ever get enough of a sample size in a database to figure out whether a call with any given suited connector is +EV (way too much variance int he flops you hit/your opponents' hand at the time) but that's just what I think. Sorry if you're not convinced, it's an unorthodox view of mine so I don't blame you for disagreeing

Time Link to 00:17:10

sry, already understood

Time Link to 00:34:12

This is literally what I do lol....

Time Link to 00:32:12

Completely agree here with Foxwood - Regs often stack off to fairly nitty players after getting 4 bet by a tight player - I think most of them are just flatting with AQ so the only hands there 4betting are AA-KK-QQ and sometimes AK - thus AK doesn't do so great there!

Great commentary!!