Mid Stakes Shorthanded NL Poker Forums

7-game on Full Tilt. I am unsure if he knows it's me. I know a lot of the CR pros watch my mix-games here on DC but he's one of them that I am not sure.

Full Tilt Poker $3/$6 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players -
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

Hero (BB): $635.00
Frank Thompson (UTG): $558.50
Payton3434 (CO): $428.50
AllMyDreams (BTN): $379.50
Ryan Daut (SB): $987.50

Pre Flop: ($9.00) Hero is BB with 3 3
3 folds, Ryan Daut raises to $18, Hero raises to $43, Ryan Daut raises to $114, Hero requests TIME, Hero?

All comments appreciated. Just call preflop? If he knows I'm a limit-playin-big-bet-nit, does it change anything?

Link to Hand#2

don't 3bet that small, fold now without history, calling is also obv fine pf

What jk3a said

NoahSD (11:51:26 PM): i pretty much always flat the 33 preflop
NoahSD (11:51:35 PM): only time i don't is if i think he's folding incredibly tightly to 3-bets
NoahSD (11:51:50 PM): but most people who fold incredibly tightly to 3-bets don't open much from the SB
NoahSD (11:51:57 PM): if you do 3-bet here, it should be to about 60
NoahSD (11:52:03 PM): 43 is way too small
NoahSD (11:52:24 PM): he's not folding anything to that amount, and that's a bad thing
NoahSD (11:52:42 PM): as played, i think it's a fold but it's sorta close between fold and call
NoahSD (11:52:52 PM): eh.. not that close
NoahSD (11:53:00 PM): but when he 4-bets over that really small 3-bet
NoahSD (11:53:02 PM): he's like always strong
NoahSD (11:53:27 PM): because he'd be really tempted to just take pot odds with weaker hands

don't 3bet that small, fold now without history, calling is also obv fine pf

yea I agree with this. I think the 3bet size might be the biggest error.

In an NL-only cash game I'd 5bet stick it in here occasionally with history, but not in a 7-game.

I would flat the vast majority of the time PF, against some people it's def fine to 3b pre (mostly against ppl who open wide and will thus fold to a lot of 3bets). If I 3b pre I would just 3b pot, I think your 3b sizing actually makes him 4b with more hands that crush you like 77-TT and decreases the times that he has "air" like A8o or w/e simply bc you (esp an unknown)will be calling that 4b a decent amt of the time. As played, I'd just fold this hand and move on.

I would only 3bet this if I intended to 5-bet bluff, otherwise you're just bloating the pot in position w/a not particularly playable hand. I hate the 3bet size as it induces calls from his whole range, at least if you 3bet bigger he'd consider 4bet bluffing but now there's less money for him to steal and he's getting better odds to call and see a flop.

Given what I know about Daut I would never 5bet jam here against him.

Given what I know about Daut I would never 5bet jam here against him.

word.

i never 3-bet small pocket pairs here unless i start getting really deep, like 300bb

Well, I thought he'd be taking light shots as I'm a limit donk, so I called him preflop:

Full Tilt Poker $3/$6 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players - View hand 204541
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

Hero (BB): $635.00
UTG: $558.50
CO: $428.50
BTN: $379.50
SB: $987.50

Pre Flop: ($9.00) Hero is BB with 3 3
3 folds, SB raises to $18, Hero raises to $43, SB raises to $114, Hero requests TIME, Hero calls $71

Flop: ($228.00) 3 6 8 (2 players)
SB bets $63, Hero requests TIME, Hero calls $63

Turn: ($354.00) J (2 players)
SB checks, Hero?

Well, I thought he'd be taking light shots as I'm a limit donk, so I called him preflop:

Full Tilt Poker $3/$6 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players - View hand 204541
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

Hero (BB): $635.00
UTG: $558.50
CO: $428.50
BTN: $379.50
SB: $987.50

Pre Flop: ($9.00) Hero is BB with 3 3
3 folds, SB raises to $18, Hero raises to $43, SB raises to $114, Hero requests TIME, Hero calls $71

Flop: ($228.00) 3 6 8 (2 players)
SB bets $63, Hero requests TIME, Hero calls $63

Turn: ($354.00) J (2 players)
SB checks, Hero?

OMG Joe what are you doing

I would only 3bet pocket pairs in this position if:

a) he folds to 3bets a lot, and his 4bet range is tight so we can fold to a 4bet

or

b) he is incredibly 4bet bluff happy, which means you can 4bet to induce a 5bet jam.

The only problem with 3betting a hand like 33 constantly is that it weakens your c/r range postflop when you decide to call with hands because you have less sets in your range.

AS played I think I would just jam the flop but calling is fine. Now check back turn hope he hits something on river (or has something), and jam river. Also next time dont call 4bets with 33.

word.

i never 3-bet small pocket pairs here unless i start getting really deep, like 300bb

What would your reasonings be behind this?

Well, I thought he'd be taking light shots as I'm a limit donk, so I called him preflop:

Full Tilt Poker $3/$6 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players - View hand 204541
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

Hero (BB): $635.00
UTG: $558.50
CO: $428.50
BTN: $379.50
SB: $987.50

Pre Flop: ($9.00) Hero is BB with 3 3
3 folds, SB raises to $18, Hero raises to $43, SB raises to $114, Hero requests TIME, Hero calls $71

Flop: ($228.00) 3 6 8 (2 players)
SB bets $63, Hero requests TIME, Hero calls $63

Turn: ($354.00) J (2 players)
SB checks, Hero?

1st: box
2nd: 3b size as allready mentioned
3rd: what range for 4betting (what was your 3b image, how is he responding to that most likely?) / calling shove are u estimating? i think without that info you play in the dark and your fold/ca/shove becomes more accurate after giving him a range
4h: how wide is his opening range out of the sb? i would often call here ip to outplay post and use my positional advantage
5th: (relating to 3rd) i would more like 3betting if i feel fine in shipping over a 4bet, or if he folds a lot to 3bets

bet?
you are so unlikely to turn your hand into a bluff on the river, so he should have an easy fold if you raise the riverbet like u did. but obviously he sees you as an awful fish.. wonder why..

stop this lame excuse that youre an fl player.. well unless you wanna splash around money for fun

Why don't you want to raise the flop?

If he has nothing do you really think he will follow it up with a bet on the turn after you have called his 4b pre-flop?

I rather raise his small lead which he might be doing to induce you to do something "stupid" so he can stack off with his weaker over-pairs.

I would only 3bet this if I intended to 5-bet bluff, otherwise you're just bloating the pot in position w/a not particularly playable hand. I hate the 3bet size as it induces calls from his whole range, at least if you 3bet bigger he'd consider 4bet bluffing but now there's less money for him to steal and he's getting better odds to call and see a flop.

Given what I know about Daut I would never 5bet jam here against him.

This is 100% spot on.