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Poker Video: No Limit Hold'Em by Syous (Mid Stakes)

didnt understand the talk in the Q3 hand about betting him off missed flush draws.. the board is AAK62 - dont you beat all non-paired flush draws besides better Qx's? Would you still bet to fold 6x-TT or would you just check it back realizing you beat missed fds?

awesomeness!

I'm unfortunately not a math guy but when ranges get that wide, you're pretty much looking to shove flop with any pair or draw.

So instead of going into shove or fold mode preflop you go into shove or fold mode on the flop, basically playing fit or fold with 9-hi in an 80-90bb pot?

Apart from that I'm not gonna fold any pair or draw neither, and my pairs will more often than not be bigger than yours, unless I have something like K3s (as opposed to you I do not open K3o in the CO). I might not even cbet that, but that does not mean that I play c/f. My draws aswell will have you dominated more often than not. Hey, and then theres the thing that I in fact DO have value hands in my 4betting range, which have you smoked.

It'd be interesting to see how it works but the last time I talked to someone about it, he said some estimates he did out loud and it seemed pretty correct.

Sometimes you get bluffed, sometimes you push him off the best hand,

You won't push me off the best hand nearly often enough. For a bluff to work you need FE, and when I have even the slightest piece of the board I'm gonna bet/call you. Hell, I have bet/called AK-hi vs guys like you.

sometimes you have odds to stick it in against his range,

Odds based on dead money YOU created by putting in 20% of your stack with 9-hi (sorry if it appears I'm beating a dead horse here, but I just find this play atrocious)

sometimes you pick up a big pot when he bet/folds... if anyone wants is willing to do some maths against ranges and flops it'd be a great discussion.

It's definitely an interesting experiment, if I played 6m regularly, it's how I would play against the small 4bettors, that or I'd min5bet them.

And fold to a jam?

Also something you forget to mention is that this is the OOP player's tool to combat light 3bettors. By making them play out of position like this constantly, I would assume most players would stop battling you pre-flop because they're going to constantly be in sticky situations. That alone is worth calling 4bets w/our continuing range imo.

Like I said, that is the only point in your argumentation that I see a slight merit in, i.e. *IF* you want to flatcall 4bets, to do it with your whole range. That gameplan would need to be analyzed.

I still think your logic here is kinda flawed. You know who I stop battling with? I stop battling with guys who CONSTANTLY flat my CO raises on the BTN. These are the guys whom I have to play for three streets OOP with a flop SPR of ~14 (assuming 100bb stacks). I'm not scared at all of OOP play with just below two pots left. Especially not if I know someone is willing to call 97s pre.

So instead of going into shove or fold mode preflop you go into shove or fold mode on the flop, basically playing fit or fold with 9-hi in an 80-90bb pot?

Apart from that I'm not gonna fold any pair or draw, and my pairs will more often than not be bigger than yours, unless I have something like K3s (as opposed to you I do not open K3o in the CO). I might not even cbet that, but that does not mean that I play c/f. My draws aswell will have you dominated more often than not. Hey, and then theres the thing that I in fact DO have value hands in my 4betting range, which have you smoked.



You won't push me off the best hand nearly often enough. For a bluff to work you need FE, and when I have even the slightest piece of the board I'm gonna bet/call you. Hell, I have bet/called AK-hi vs guys like you.



Odds based on dead money YOU created by putting in 20% of your stack with 9-hi (sorry if it appears I'm beating a dead horse here, but I just find this play atrocious)



And fold to a jam?



Like I said, that is the only point in your argumentation that I see a slight merit in, i.e. *IF* you want to flatcall 4bets, to do it with your whole range. That gameplan would need to be analyzed.

I still think your logic here is kinda flawed. You know who I stop battling with? I stop battling with guys who CONSTANTLY flat my CO raises on the BTN. These are the guys whom I have to play for three streets OOP with a flop SPR of ~14 (assuming 100bb stacks). I'm not scared at all of OOP play with just below two pots left. Especially not if I know someone is willing to call 97s pre.

you're right that it's probably better shove 97s pf based on your 4b frequencies. It would also be a poor adjustment to 3bet you with 97s if you're going to 4b small a lot as well.

It's really going to depend on how often you 4bet me, if it gets ridiculous then I'll 3b small pairs to jam and possibly suited connectors to jam depending on how crazy it gets, but really this is getting more into HU adjustment than 6m.

6m it'd be simple enough to 3bet just broadways and AT+ or something like that if you were to really take 4betting to that level. Everyone's different and ranges should be designed to tailor to such diversity. If you're constantly bet/calling flops off, then we gain so much value from even a hand like TT that doesn't like to see flops, but if you b/c your whole range off a 1 facecard board, I find it hard to see it being -ev.

It would be a really interesting game to play, unfortunately I don't think we'll have the chance at that kind of dynamic

didnt understand the talk in the Q3 hand about betting him off missed flush draws.. the board is AAK62 - dont you beat all non-paired flush draws besides better Qx's? Would you still bet to fold 6x-TT or would you just check it back realizing you beat missed fds?

Yeah sorry, I was interested in the argument that betting will fold 6-TTx as well as busted flush draws since we're going to be here w/a busted draw worse than Qhi sometimes.

I'm not saying that it's better to shove 97s pre. When did I say that? There are 169 different Holdem hands in a 52 card deck. Some of them are awesome to 3bet with, some of them are not. Some hands play awesome postflop, some not really. 97s falls into the latter category. I don't even think that you should shove 97s once you 3bet him and got 4bet. Just fold, dude.

OK, Phil Galfond says that calling 4bets is viable 100bb eff. Hard to argue with that, cos 1. He's awesome and 2. I haven't seen the vid (I wouldn't be afraid to argue with him though if I truly disagreed, because you are prolly a better player than I am aswell and I'm arguing with you ). However, I've recently read or heard (maybe even in a DC vid?) someone quote him, that our aim is not to win pots but to win money. You know, sometimes folding is actually the best play.

The hand that started the whole discussion was you 3betting J4s CO/BTN. Now, while I also don't particularly love this play, I think it is WAY superior than doing it with 97s, because you're not unhappy at all when you get 4bet, you just muck and move on with a slightly more aggro image. On the other hand, if you 3bet 97s (which sucks imo), get 4bet and have to fold (which is the best play imo), then you think, why oh why didn't I just flat this hand?

Everybody hates shortstackers with a passion and there's a BIG controversy going on in the 2p2 forums since stars split the playerpool into 20-50 and 40-100 tables. Yet every 2nd 100bb reg anyways wants to play a preflop, or low SPR flop game. I don't, and tbh, probably won't get this.

I'm not saying that it's better to shove 97s pre. When did I say that? There are 169 different Holdem hands in a 52 card deck. Some of them are awesome to 3bet with, some of them are not. Some hands play awesome postflop, some not really. 97s falls into the latter category. I don't even think that you should shove 97s once you 3bet him and got 4bet. Just fold, dude.

OK, Phil Galfond says that calling 4bets is viable 100bb eff. Hard to argue with that, cos 1. He's awesome and 2. I haven't seen the vid (I wouldn't be afraid to argue with him though if I truly disagreed, because you are prolly a better player than I am aswell and I'm arguing with you ). However, I've recently read or heard (maybe even in a DC vid?) someone quote him, that our aim is not to win pots but to win money. You know, sometimes folding is actually the best play.

The hand that started the whole discussion was you 3betting J4s CO/BTN. Now, while I also don't particularly love this play, I think it is WAY superior than doing it with 97s, because you're not unhappy at all when you get 4bet, you just muck and move on with a slightly more aggro image. On the other hand, if you 3bet 97s (which sucks imo), get 4bet and have to fold (which is the best play imo), then you think, why oh why didn't I just flat this hand?

Everybody hates shortstackers with a passion and there's a BIG controversy going on in the 2p2 forums since stars split the playerpool into 20-50 and 40-100 tables. Yet every 2nd 100bb reg anyways wants to play a preflop, or low SPR flop game. I don't, and tbh, probably won't get this.

well if u have high bluff frequencies, jamming 97s isn't a bad play in this spot. Not saying I would personally do it but it can be defendable.

On 3betting 97s - personally, it's going to be minus ev for some to call (weaker postflop players or just nits), that's why it's not that bad to 3bet, but I get what you're saying.

J4s is definitely sexy like that

100bb regs definitely need to start more tables.

100bb regs definitely need to start more tables.

Now here's something on which we 100% agree (and I do it constantly).

Now here's something on which we 100% agree (and I do it constantly).

and therein lies the peace.

I'm glad you start tables. In actuality any 6m reg who does should probably take some HU lessons. I already said it in the video but to anyone reading it, by taking HU lessons you can work on giving yourself a neutral if not +ev edge on other regs looking to start tables AND generally tables you start will be soft since they only run if a fish or two join. I had a fish donate me 40bbs while I was trying to get this vid going, it was a nice gift.

Unfortunately Stars really should start giving out some incentives for starting tables. They probably don't care and prefer 20-50bb tables to keep fish in the game longer but yeah....

Hahah, you're definitely a good businessman. Maybe I'll even take a few HU lessons from you one day, because apart from how it might have sounded, I like the way you think about the game (you are certainly creative and so am I). tbh I wouldn' even have commented if I thought you just sucked. I just like arguing when I see players who I think are good make what I think is a shitty play

That's what'll make us all better players in the end.

Lol I really wasn't meaning to imply myself. There are plenty of cheaper HU coaches.

I completely agree w/what you're saying. This discussion was definitely interesting and needed. Just because I spouted during that video what I believe is the correct counter-play (mind you I came up with it right then) doesn't make it correct. That's my intuition speaking, however both of our arguments are very close imo.

But what our discussion did serve is a template for the players reading this. Should they choose to take part on either side, at least there are arguments for what we think is bad/good.

Who wants a cheap HU coach if you can get an expensive one who likes to take unorthodox (albeit shitty) lines

I really mean that. You don't wanna know how many stacks I've spewed trying shitty lines.

Yeah I get what you're saying. I do think it's much more important to learn the basics and master them before moving on to a lag play. I started tight hu and once I had a better understanding of the game I became ridiculously loose. It's just so important to understand tag play and not just mimic it before being able to move on farther than that. If someone can't understand tag, how can they understand lag?

Time Link to 00:04:22

the T9s hand - i think the c/r is bad and that's discussed on video, but you guy's gloss over calling once he reraises. why is a set a call and not T9s? the only hand between those holdings you discuss is KT. there are only six combos and a 3b with this hand seems insane.

One of the best 6-max videos on DC Syous: occasionally you cut Chipchucker off a little, which is something you could work on; however, this is a minor thing and your contribution is in general excellent. Looking forward to more.

Couldn't agree more great series but Syous please let Chipchucker finish his sentences