Justice88
774 posts
Joined 03/2008
Time Link to 00:23:35
Theoretically, when you're in the blinds against a button who is opening a ton and who is more laggy in general, what are your thoughts on hands like smaller SC's and PP's (66-99) in terms of 3betting if you know the other blind is fairly tight or loose? Obv if BTN is only calling Broadways and PP's were not in good shape, but without much history how do you like to procees here?
thx for another great video sir, always entertaining and solid.
Posted almost 4 years ago
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Sugar Nut
842 posts
Joined 03/2008
Time Link to 00:02:27
Would it not make more sense to just flat here with AQ vs a guy that folds a lot? I have the video paused so I don't know his response yet, but I assume you will fold vs a 4bet? If not (and you have good reasons for it) 3betting is obviously fine, but in a way you're bluffing here with AQ, no?
I understand that you want to take the initiative being OOP and all that, but our hand should play well even OOP in a single raised pot vs an isolate-limper-range.
do you think he's getting frustrated with your constant 3betting and expect him to call or 4bet worse? If so, and that is your read, then 3betting is fine I guess.
Posted almost 4 years ago
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Ulkis
671 posts
Joined 10/2007
I did like some comments about 3bet pots, definately some balugawhalism there as SC's being no-no and top pairs ie equity locks being the nuts---then before that I saw Noah 3betting a low SC IIRC, so I am a bit confused, but need to watch it a second time to be sure what was going on so pls don't quote me on that.
Also looked to me - correct me if I am wrong - that the 3betting range from the blinds was quite depolarized, KT, ie high cards for sure but stuff in the middle nevertheless. Just an observation. So 3betting for value against weaker ranges and expanding what the vbet range means ie high cards coming down in value, I am thinking about AT, QJ etc here.
Yeah will definately watch a couple of more times and make better notes - very nice video indeed.
Edit: the fuck words are totally unnecessary imo.
Posted almost 4 years ago
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actionjacson
45 posts
Joined 03/2008
Hey NSD great video and it was nice that you cut down on the un necesary swearing a little because your a better video producer than that, with regards to the three betting disscussion do you think that most of those borderline hands play profitably as a call oop (K J, K 10, Q J type hands) because like you were saying in the video people were folding ( so maybe you were three betting these hands because you expected people to call more with dominated hands? )to a ton of your three bets and theoretically we could have uno cards and three bet those and called with those type of hands we were three betting and we able to play more hands profitably vrs the worse regs? also does your strategy change when you get deeper? what are your thoughts on this?
Posted almost 4 years ago
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peten2toms
362 posts
Joined 01/2008
Sugar Nut
842 posts
Joined 03/2008
Noah,
great video as always. One general question:
Offsuit connectors: Could you elaborate a bit about WHY you play them looser than other players? For example, are you going to open them religiously from, say, the CO regardless of who's left to act, or do you need bad players in the blinds? I will open tons of these with loose/passive players in the blinds and also if there's only nits left to act. Vs decent, solid TAGs or even LAGs I am more hesitant to do so.
Where do you think your value comes from with, say, 76o from the CO on what kinda boards vs what kinda villains? For example how thinly are you going to vbet 2nd pair no kicker? You'll pretty much gonna have that hand till the river a lot of the times without any backdoor flushdraws or whatever (i.e. made hands are pretty equity static and draws often not as strong as they are with SC's).
Long post, sorry but I've been experimenting with these hands and that topic really interests me.
Posted almost 4 years ago
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Sugar Nut
842 posts
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peten2toms
362 posts
Joined 01/2008
peten2toms
362 posts
Joined 01/2008
NoahSD
291 posts
Joined 07/2008
Would it not make more sense to just flat here with AQ vs a guy that folds a lot? I have the video paused so I don't know his response yet, but I assume you will fold vs a 4bet? If not (and you have good reasons for it) 3betting is obviously fine, but in a way you're bluffing here with AQ, no?
I understand that you want to take the initiative being OOP and all that, but our hand should play well even OOP in a single raised pot vs an isolate-limper-range.
do you think he's getting frustrated with your constant 3betting and expect him to call or 4bet worse? If so, and that is your read, then 3betting is fine I guess.
No.
It's not a good idea to think of preflop in terms of value betting and bluffing. Preflop equities in NLHE are too close together (i.e., it's rare to be mpore than a 70/30 favorite) for that sort of logic to make sense.
The fact of the matter is that he's just folding to this 3-bet so much that 3-betting is way more profitable than calling here. He's probably folding something like 70% of the time (given that I have blockers to a lot of his range) and maybe 4-betting something like 10% of the time. So, my equity here is .7*30-.1*58+.2*(equity when called - 58) = 3.6 + .2*equity when called. If we just very roughly estimate our equity when called at half the pot (a low estimate), then the equity of a 3-bet is 3.6+.2*34 = $10.4. There's no way the equity of calling is that high when we're putting in $16 to a play a $44 pot with AQo OOP without initiative against a decent player with a tightish range.
Posted almost 4 years ago
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NoahSD
291 posts
Joined 07/2008
All,
I feel like a lot of you are confused about the same thing.
When you're 3-betting to like less than 15% of stacks preflop, categorizing your hands into value bets and bluffs isn't really particularly helpful. Most of the time that I'm 3-betting, I'm hoping for a fold, but I'm not just bluffing because when I'm called I can make hands and I can bluff myself, etc. I guess you can call it semibluffing, but really it's just different than anything that happens postflop.
Ulkis,
I didn't say I don't 3-bet suited connectors and stuff, I just said that I just 3-bet them less than most people who 3-bet as much as me... i.e., I think people overvalue their value when 3-betting.
Glad you liked the vid. Sorry if the cursing bothers you. In my last video there were a lot of comments on that, and it seems like the consensus is that the cursing makes the vids seem more natural and is entertaining. If a lot of people complain, I'll stop.
actionjacson,
Glad you liked the vid.
I think KJo/QJo are marginally profitable to play OOP vs. a BU or CO open against most regulars. KTo I don't think is profitable against most there, but I'm obviously just guessing. I'm 3-betting them because I think that that's way more profitable than calling. See the math in my first response for the logic behind this.
Yes, my strategy does change as I get deeper. Many opponents who fold really tightly to 3-bets will (correctly) call with a very wide range of hands as stacks get deeper when they're in position. Against these opponents, I obviously 3-bet much fewer hands OOP. I 3-bet much lighter against everyone with deeper stacks (say like 250+ BBs deep) in position because no matter how they respond, I'm just gonna shit on them. I also 3-bet a slightly different range deep. The deeper I get, the weaker hands like KTo/KJo get and the stronger hands like suited connectors, suited aces, and small pairs get (especially suited aces... suited aces are insanely strong hands with very deep stacks).
Posted almost 4 years ago
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NoahSD
291 posts
Joined 07/2008
In regards to this spot how would you react to a check shove if you in fact had JJ+?
Do you mean the hand vs. Python where I have KhJh? I'd snap fold those hands to a c/shove. I don't think I'm getting c/shoved here very often at all, though.. like less than 20% of the time.
Posted almost 4 years ago
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NoahSD
291 posts
Joined 07/2008
Sugar,
I think offsuit connectors are pretty strong for a lot of reasons. Straight draws and straights tend to be pretty concealed, and straight draws don't really get dominated in the way that flush draws do (an OESD vs. an over OESD like 67 vs. TJ on 89x has 32% equity whereas a flush draw vs. a bigger FD has like 20% equity).
Of course, these hands still aren't as good as suited connectors. And, playing them correctly is way harder than playing a hand like AK or 22 profitably. Like you said, a lot of the time you flop something really marginal. Unfortunately, I can't really generalize how I play a hand like 2PNK... there are just too many variables. Sometimes I treat it like a semibluff, sometimes I treat it like basically pure air, sometimes I treat it like the nuts, sometimes I just try to get to showdown, etc etc etc.
Playing draws and marginal hands correctly are prob the two hardest things to do in NLHE, and there's really no quick answer.
Posted almost 4 years ago
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NoahSD
291 posts
Joined 07/2008
Whats your plan if villain bets? How would you react to a turn raise vs our lead?
I'm c/cing flop. There's not much that beats us, and even though this guy doesn't bluff much when checked to, this is like the nut spot to bluff when checked to, so I'm sure he'll have a decent amount of air.
A turn raise like never happens. I guess I'd call and c/c river, but seriously, that like never happens.
Posted almost 4 years ago
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