the first few hands are like, oooh ya sexy folds, this looks good.
then the JJ hand made me plotz
Dj Sensei and Vanessa really begin to mix it up this week with Aggressive Folding. Knowing when you are beat and the tough laydowns can make or break your bankroll sometimes.
DJ Sensei and Vanessa Selbst are back with more Unconventional Wisdom. For the anniversary of DeucesCracked.com they revisit some of the topics of the previous series like 3-betting but with deeper discussions and theories. They also discuss the change in the games from a year ago.
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the first few hands are like, oooh ya sexy folds, this looks good.
then the JJ hand made me plotz
What time in the video did the hand/discussion occur? Makes it easier for producers to find the hand, rewatch and figure out the context of the hand, and comment based on that.
Rob
Oh ok thanks.
The hand occurred around the 30-31 minute mark.
44:00 86cc. My first thought was to lead here. Thoughts?
I like it, for all the reasons you said. I think if UTG happens to raise, you have to just fold... but you can hope he has like 77,88, TT-QQ or AQ or so and can't do anything bc of all the people behind him. Cool.
I think the main thing to get out of this kind of video is that this kind of thinking can be really bad for your game. The whole point is there are situations where folding AK for 500 BB's would be terrible, and there are situations, like this one, where it's probably the proper fold for 75.
I'm just glad you guys edited out the visual of AK going into the muck there, and skipped ahead to the next hand. This way we can always hold out hope that you didn't actually fold it. ![]()
But joking aside, I liked it for all the reasons you stated but also b/c your UTG and so his already nitty range for RRing you there is even stronger.
I think the main thing to get out of this kind of video is that this kind of thinking can be really bad for your game. The whole point is there are situations where folding AK for 500 BB's would be terrible, and there are situations, like this one, where it's probably the proper fold for 75.
I actually never make any calculation with AK going All In pre-flop until this video
The reason is, we have AK and we go all in for 100BB any time, right? Hmmm, not sure any more. Here is the reason why:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 45.314% 40.02% 05.30% 715345548 94711176.00 { AKo }
Hand 1: 54.686% 49.39% 05.30% 882877476 94711176.00 { 22+, AJs+, AKo }
In the current hand he can have 3bet range of 7.7% and we are only break even EV! (actually we still lose 2,5c
)
But ok, everybody bluff so lets change that. Lets assume since he is TAG that his 3bet range is 3,8% and that he blufs 10%:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 42.870% 30.56% 12.31% 226021668 91093338.00 { AKo }
Hand 1: 57.130% 44.82% 12.31% 331506984 91093338.00 { TT+, AQs+, AKo }
Now if I add to that 10% (random hand without his 3bet range) we still lose 3,1$ if we go all in!?
Im shocked!? Can someone pls explain to me why we always say "well its AK lets ship it!"? I know there is dead money in the pot and we have to calculate the times he fold and we collect. So does that mean we need to take a better look at his fold to 4bet range to make a better/right decision?
Can someone who is smarter then me go a bit deeper in to this? Ty
Can someone who is smarter then me go a bit deeper in to this? Ty
LOL, im quoting my self
I guess i have to much time...going a bit deeper...
In my last example i assume our vilian have 3bet range of 3,8% + 10% bluffs. Now what about our 4bet to 90$-100$? (math is done on 90$ 4bet)
1.) If his 5bet shove (i did not assume he will call ever) range is 1,2% (AA, KK, AKs) then if we call we LOSE -56$
2.) If his 5bet shove range is 1,7% (AA, KK, QQ, AKs) then if we call we LOSE -9$
3.) If his 5bet shove range is 2,1% (AA, KK, AKs, AK) then if we call we WIN +9$
4.) If his 5bet shove range is 2,6% (AA, KK, QQ, AKs, AK) then if we call we WIN +17$
Im sure you figure it out that if his 5bet shove (not folding to 4bet) range is above 1,7% we make money with 4bet-ing and calling his 5bet All In.
I hope i did my math the right way ![]()
All the smarter ppl are still welcome to go deeper ![]()
omg this is THE video i was waiting for... my wts is soooooo much too high
Is this the episode where you recommend just open folding 22-55 UTG?
I play 100nl and over the last 50K hands I'm at 141bb/100 raising with 22-55 UTG 100% so I'm not stopping anytime soon!
Is this the episode where you recommend just open folding 22-55 UTG?
I play 100nl and over the last 50K hands I'm at 141bb/100 raising with 22-55 UTG 100% so I'm not stopping anytime soon!
Well, as long as your opponents are not 3betting you often, giving up postflop very easily, and paying off bigtime when you hit a set, then by all means raise it up!
Just be ready to adjust that part of your range when you move up in stakes and those conditions change.
Time Link to 00:19:18
I like to bet 8.50 here to induce short to shove while blatantly telling the cut off ur intention to raise. If cut off calls and you re pop, depending on what cut off does in response u have a lot of information.
The hand JJ flop KT9ss.
I don't understand why if we check turn we fold river.
Cause if we check turn we undervalue our hand and (like Vanessa say in Duck Soup) we have to do big call on the river.
I think that we can bet/fold turn or check behind turn and call any resonable bet on the river.
I prefer check behind turn cause we can cause bluff induction on the river AND avoid check raise semibluff on turn.
Oppo can always bet AJ AQ or all busted draw, hands we bet on the river and are big part of his range, and i think AT and QQ maybe can check/call most of the time.
Betting the river he rapresents mostly trips+ (Kx, 99, TT, KK, JQ) so is not a big part of his range.
But i think that most of the time he second barrel with set or straight at turn than check raise.
And most of the time he could second barrel with TP at turn.
So really at river he's only representing trips or a bluff.
So Can you explayn me why don't we call river bet?
Thanks, nice series
I didn't like this video that much, these folding situations are somewhat lame. I think its very easy to fold in multi-way pots with decent hands considering there is a greater chance of a big hand, especially when it comes to folding with draws.
I think if another video is made about folding in tough spots, it should be focused on situations that are headsup since those are the spots we encounter the most at 6max and the spots we really want to improve on, multi-way pots are really for big hands, so if we just dont get too crazy FPS in multi-way pots we should be fine. Being able to fold big hands heads-up is really what should be the focus.
Just a thought, no offensive should be taken, I like both sensei and vanessa.
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