losing much in non showdown Page 1 of 2

Subscribe to losing much in non showdown 18 posts, 10 voices

 
thefist
Deuce High
63 posts
Joined 07/08

ok here's my problem:
[IMG]http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/704/nonsdev7.th.png[/IMG]
im losing a lot in non-sd winnings,i know its a small sample size but imo its a big leak.. but how to fix it?

my stats are: 17.6/13.2/2.16(AF) and 3.7% 3b(quite small?!)
WTSD% 24.4
W$SD% 55.6(seems ok?)

who can help me? thanks in advance

Posted Jul 20, 2008 1:15pm

Hielko
Quad Deuces
1114 posts
Joined 07/08

Your are obviously playing like a nit. Start playing looser and bluffing mare and you will start loosing less in non-sd winnings (but your W$SD% will also drop). It's though to find the right balance, but I would suggest to experiment a bit. Don't over do it, but just try a 20%vpip/6%3bet and see how things work out.

Posted Jul 20, 2008 5:45pm

silly_monkey
Deuce High
14 posts
Joined 07/08

You're probably playing a little to weakly post flop. You just need to steal the odd blind, pick up an occasional pot that nobody wants, and probably value bet a bit more thinly. Your stats are all really nitty, but I would imagine you can probably still be a decent winner if you played a bit better post flop. If you are like ever poker player I've ever met, you'll start to open up your game, realize that you can get away with a lot, take things waaaay too far, and then spend the next 200k hands trying to master the concept of selective aggression.

Posted Jul 23, 2008 10:38pm

improva
Deuces Full
617 posts
Joined 02/08

ok here's my problem:
[IMG]http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/704/nonsdev7.th.png[/IMG]
im losing a lot in non-sd winnings,i know its a small sample size but imo its a big leak.. but how to fix it?

my stats are: 17.6/13.2/2.16(AF) and 3.7% 3b(quite small?!)
WTSD% 24.4
W$SD% 55.6(seems ok?)

who can help me? thanks in advance



1) There is nothing wrong with loosing non-sd. Low and medium stakes are mostly about value town.

2) Watch sthief09 videos to help open up your game.

Posted Jul 24, 2008 7:05am

tubasteve
Quad Deuces
1993 posts
Joined 11/07

you can win in non-sd pots. it is definitely possible. you just have to increase your postflop aggression! learn when to c-bet. learn when to c-bet multiple players. learn how to value bet < TP. find good 2-barrel spots, think about how board texture affects hand range and you might even find some good 3-barrel spots too. oh, and you should be 3-betting about 2x as much as you do right now; you probably call too often in the blinds esp. against late position raisers.

what is your W$WSF?

Posted Jul 24, 2008 7:46am

Hielko
Quad Deuces
1114 posts
Joined 07/08

you can win in non-sd pots.


If you never fold pre or postflop when you have invested money in the pot you can't lose in non-sd pots!!!! ;)

Posted Jul 25, 2008 12:18am

improva
Deuces Full
617 posts
Joined 02/08

If you never fold pre or postflop when you have invested money in the pot you can't lose in non-sd pots!!!! ;)



I looled

Posted Jul 25, 2008 8:48am

thefist
Deuce High
63 posts
Joined 07/08

ty guys for the reactions
im currently watching the vids of sthief and loosening up my game(21/16)over the last 3k hands(small sample size i know) and it seems to go better, 450$ up! but still almost -200 in nonsd...

@tuba where do i see W$WSF?

Posted Jul 26, 2008 10:02am

improva
Deuces Full
617 posts
Joined 02/08

Under reports: Add Won when saw flop. Press refresh

Posted Jul 26, 2008 10:30am

thefist
Deuce High
63 posts
Joined 07/08

41.6 it is..

Posted Jul 26, 2008 2:48pm

thefist
Deuce High
63 posts
Joined 07/08

still going bad in non-sd
[img=http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/5668/graphqg6.th.jpg]
[img=http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/2867/statsmh1.th.jpg]

2 downhill lines are from playing when ill(-450)and a downswingy 200nl shot(-650) but its not about that.
-4k in non-sd is quite a lot i guess..
what are the leaks in my game? first of all i found out my cbet% is sick low and should be doubled almost.Second i call too much OOP from the blinds and give up then on later streets..
what more should i change?

Posted Aug 31, 2008 2:55pm

JammyJenny
Deuce High
68 posts
Joined 06/08

u look pretty weaktight. raise more pre and do more aggressive things postflop, simple.

Posted Aug 31, 2008 3:39pm

Emperor
Deuce High
29 posts
Joined 03/08

I would agree with improva, at low stakes with good table selection there is no reason to be winning pots by trying to bluff the fish before showdown. It wont work.

However, mine looks very similar but is getting better since I found some flops/turns/rivers to bluff on depending on opponent and texture. I also am trying to valubet/raise rivers more instead of checking, which means opponent folds more.

Posted Sep 1, 2008 5:31am

beaster
Deuce High
1 post
Joined 08/08

It can be done. Not by bluffing fish of course. Being headsup in position vs. tags/weak-tight regulars is where you can combat frequent cbetters, blind stealers, as well as the odd line (donk bets on dry boards).

Also be more aggressive in position on boards that look to have hit you and not the opponent. Don't give up every time you get called on the flop.

Posted Sep 3, 2008 7:17pm

duffte
Deuces Full
523 posts
Joined 04/08

[img=http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/2867/statsmh1.th.jpg]



26wtsd with 55% = 14,3% won @ sd
36wwsf - 14 = 22% w/o sd

you need to see how much of your wwsf is won at sd to compare wwsf values

i got 28% wtsd and 48% won@.. so about the same w$atsd as yours
but my wwsf is about 50 so i win 36% w/osd, you do 22%


your game just need improvements in general, dont start bluffing off your whole stack or sth.
i really recommend you to move down or at least not to move up or take shots

post hands

Posted Sep 3, 2008 7:56pm