High Stakes Strategy Poker Forums

Hello sorry for not having the handhistory at hand, I was just today changing from my old PT to holdem-manager and somehow messed up with the importing.

Here is the hand anyway:

I was playing about 27-23 at the time on the table, I was attacking and stealing every time from button but other then that pretty snugg.

I had been playing with the same opponent to my left for the entire session, somewhere between 1 and 2 hours.

He had been 3beting me a little bit and i had generally been folding or 4beting. 4beting some good hands and some bluffs. Thus far I had been very tight from the small blind, I had raised him early in the session and he 3bet me the first time so I suspected there was going to be alot of battles and action in this situation and he wasnt going to fold his big blind much in possition. I had not 4bet him yet in SB vs BB (I probably should have, he was really out of line in BB vs SB.), ive called and checkraised flopp like 1-2 times but we never saw showdown in blind vs blind. I had been mucking preflop quite a bit too.

So now im dealt AJ in SB and I open to 3bbs, we are 150bb deep as he did not buy-in full at the deep table.
He quickly makes it 10bbs and I decide to call. Didnt want to make my first 4bet with AJ since I wasnt sure about how he was going to react to it, so I had no idea how to play postflopp if I did. Id rather have a AK or QQ+ type of hand or junk when I 4bet not knowing anything.

Flopp comes out: A 5 6 and I check. (pot 20bbs)
He bets 16bbs and I decide to just call. My hand is almost always good and I didnt want to raise it and have him play back with a draw or AK, I dont think he would ever bluffraise. So I decided to see the turn.

Turn comes out: 5 and I check again. (pot 52bbs)
He now bets 28bbs into the 52bb pot. I noticed the betsize. It really looked like he was trying to set up the pot for a perfect rivershove around the potsize, slightly less. Im not sure what my play should be here? He cant think I have a junky ace, I was really not opening those in SB. So his hand is pretty much AK, AQ, tripps, a flushdraw or a bluff? Maybe I should have folded the turn, im not sure he bets a flushdraw even. And I dont know if he would barrel air, maybe. I timed down and couldnt decide at all, so I called and I was planning on calling river too just to see what he has! His range is so wide preflop and he had been cbeting every flopp.

River comes out: J (pot 108bbs)
Yeeeeha!
I still have no idea what he has but I think if he is not going to fire he is going to have air and wouldnt be able to call anyways. So I check, he jam his last 96bbs in and I call.
He show me A5 for a boat.





I think about this. I really cant be playing this well, I open>call>call>call>call and it must be really easy for him to take advantage of this in possition. I mean I know because thats what I do! People arent giving me any problems doing this, and I dont know what I can do really?

You geniuses out there, how do you play this?
And even more importantly: whats your strategy against this?
Only thing I can think of is opening really tight and 4beting back ALOT to negate possition.
But its so easy for opponent to adjust to this and make us get the money in super bad. Its really going to take a long time until we can see adjustments made by the opponent in these kind of spots since they come up so rarely.

I think you should watch some of the 6max video series, specifically Lightsabers, Parallels and Lime-Aid. There's a lot in there that deals with developing 4-bet strategies and playing OOP against aggressive 3-bettors. I'd play this hand the same way you did, though.

I think you should watch some of the 6max video series, specifically Lightsabers, Parallels and Lime-Aid. There's a lot in there that deals with developing 4-bet strategies and playing OOP against aggressive 3-bettors. I'd play this hand the same way you did, though.

Really? Given the preamble, I was getting all psyched for the 4b and then it didn't come. AJ is a monster even without the history in SB vs BB.

Really? Given the preamble, I was getting all psyched for the 4b and then it didn't come. AJ is a monster even without the history in SB vs BB.

I wouldnt 4b AJs here in 2009 with 150bb unless I wanted to get all-in. I think it's too valuable to 4b against a light 3betting range, so while it's obviously +EV (so long as you never fold to a jam in this day and age), if you play well enough postflop there's more value in calling (same with a hand like KQs).

The more detailed answer involves the obvious "it depends." It depends how often he folds to 4-bets, it depends how often he bluffs postflop if you call (and what he thinks your range is), it depends if you have the information necessary to 4-bet fold or if you will burn money by 4-bet folding (or conversely, by 4-betting and calling it off --- which can never be THAT bad in sb vs bb anymore anyway)

What is everyone's thoughts about open limping given the dynamic going on?

I think the hand is played fine. I do not like a 4B at all. I just do not think your hand performs well enough against his 150BB deep 5B shoving range.

I just do not think your hand performs well enough against his 150BB deep 5B shoving range.

This really doesn't matter at all if you're going to fold to a shove. In fact, the worse your hand does against his 5b shoving range, the BETTER a 4b is (because it means he's shoving tighter and therefore less often). What matters a whole heck of a lot more is how your hand does against his CALLING range. And it seems like this guy, in this spot, is going to call a pretty wide range that you are doing pretty well against, so you're just burning EV by allowing him to play a smaller pot with the worst hand.

That being said, I definitely understand Jay's point. And in more normal spots, I would 100% agree. But here I only 50% agree, because of the whole setup where it seems like Villain is going to call with hands like A2s/KJs here if we bump it.

TheWorstPlayer
Why do you think he would call my 4bet alot?
I dont think he would.

Seems like the kind of player that always wants to be the aggressor and have the beting lead and possition etc. And when he does he doesnt care that much of his hand.

I dont think he will call my 4bet with any bad hands. So had I a more junky hand I would 4bet bluff.
As I said in the post I didnt know if he would shove alot or fold alot to my 4bet. And I didnt want to start finding out with AJ suited because I taught it to be one of the best hands to call with. Id rather have a better performing all-in hand or a junk hand that I was going to fold when I 4bet for the first time.

I thought so because you wrote "Thus far I had been very tight from the small blind, I had raised him early in the session and he 3bet me the first time so I suspected there was going to be alot of battles and action in this situation and he wasnt going to fold his big blind much in possition. I had not 4bet him yet in SB vs BB (I probably should have, he was really out of line in BB vs SB.)" And because you're 150bb deep. So when you 4-bet, I think he's going to not give you credit for a monster and he's going to flat call in position to either make a pair or to bluff/semi-bluff you out. I wouldn't expect him to fold hands like KQ, ATs, 98s, 99, whatever.