High Stakes Strategy Poker Forums

What was your most difficult move up? How long and how many tries did it take?

I'm beating $2/$4 nl for about 50k hands with a pretty good ptbb, most hands played at party poker. I'm currently playing at FullTilt and I'm willing to move up to $3/$6 and posteriorly to $5/$10.

What trouble may I face through this move up and what advice would to give me?

Thank you very much for doing this!

YO ~
At what limit did it all start to "click" for you ?
also DC hoodies are a must~
cheers
from Aus

5/10, probably, when I started winning more than everyone else. I was also winning pots in ways that no one else would (although I was still losing pots in ways no one else would, too!) But I played a lot of hands there against some real good players and it helped me build my personal style.

What was your most difficult move up? How long and how many tries did it take?

I'm beating $2/$4 nl for about 50k hands with a pretty good ptbb, most hands played at party poker. I'm currently playing at FullTilt and I'm willing to move up to $3/$6 and posteriorly to $5/$10.

What trouble may I face through this move up and what advice would to give me?

Thank you very much for doing this!

25/50. Took me almost a year to be able to stay there. It was primarily because I wasn't thinking about who I was playing as much as I was relying on my general routine for playing and skills I had developed multi-tabling. Once I started thinking about the players more than the stakes and generalities, my results improved loads.

Biggest trouble you'll face is being afraid of the bigger pots and probably intimidated by the regulars. Don't be intimidated - if you're killing 2/4NL, you're likely better than most of the regs at 3/6. You just don't realize it. And don't be afraid to move down if the move up doesn't go well. A wise man once told me you should not play just one limit, but have a range of limits you play - based on bankroll, game selection and so on.

So the first day you play 3/6, you're not a 2/4 player trying to move up. You're a poker player who plays both 2/4 and 3/6NL.

What your favourite car?
Do you have a favourite player?
Do you have a favourite PC game?

What your favourite car?
Do you have a favourite player?
Do you have a favourite PC game?

Favorite car? hmmmmm. I like the Maserati Quattroporte, since I almost bought it!

Favorite player - Prahlad!

PC game - I don't play PC games (my family had a busto PC when I was growing up so I never got into them) but my favorite videogame off the top of my head is/was Xenogears for Playstation.

How do I stop doing spewy stuff that I should know better than doing? I almost always have too many of those hands whenever I play a long session.

How do I stop doing spewy stuff that I should know better than doing? I almost always have too many of those hands whenever I play a long session.

Play shorter sessions. Boom.

Hi Krantz,

First I want to congratulate you for the prinnyraid/whitelime series, it’s very good and I really enjoy it. Maybe you could do a follow up where you analyze key hands in poker tracker, maybe do EV-calcs (incl. fold equity) and talk a little why you put people on certain hands because of betting lines etc. That would be really educational IMO.

Now for my questions more related to this thread.

First question:
Let’s say you open for a raise preflop and get cold called behind. Now I think I have a leak where I C-bet way to much on the flop. But the problem I have is that I don’t know which hands to raise preflop and then check-call or check-raise on the flop, ‘cause if I don’t do this with some hands, the caller could bet with any two cards when I check, because he knows I will fold. So which hands or situations (or am I thinking about it wrong)?

Second question:
Why is it the donk-bet has such bad reputation? The reason c-bets are so effective is because 2/3 of the time(HU) nobody hits anything on the flop and the line goes check-bet-fold. But if we donk-bet we take away that advantage. Sure you could generalize and say that a donk-bet from a weak player is usually a vulnerable made hand (or draw) and you should just raise him out (and in the case of a stronger player it’s probably a very strong hand and we should fold), but we of course play with a much more balanced range than that. I mean there’s a lot of hands we want to bet, but really don’t want to check-raise.

I really question this “check to the raiser” stuff and I know that Doyle Brunson in Super System advocates betting into the raiser, but he only does it with his great hands, which would be extremely exploitable.

Thanks
And keep up the good work

TaBortMej

Hey Krantz,

Loving the whitelime vs. pr1nnyraid series so far. I just signed up yesterday and have watched all your videos in the series thus far and have just began watching whitelime's videos. It really opened my eyes to a different way of thinking during hands and also where I was being a little too tight. I've been a member of 2 other training sites over the last year or so (still a member of one of them) and I have to say I'm very impressed with the instructional format presented at DeucesCracked - it is very different, entertaining and informative. I'm a 200NL regular and I switched to just playing 2 tables last night and really focussing on playing the players and the way I thought they were viewing me and vice versa with some great results, so thank you.

What are your thoughts on an optimal number of tables and what did you prefer when moving up through the ranks? I for the most part 4-6 table but following last nights experience I think I prefer to play 2 tables and get a far better feel for the game. My only concern is the fact that I do not get as many hands in and thus variance could be a huge pain, in that downswings will last for what feels like an eternity as a result of only getting in a few hundred hands per day. I'm not sure of how to balance this or if variance and number of hands should be largely ignored.

Another question was that of 4-betting (yep, another one!). In an earlier post you say that with 100BB stacks you should never fold after you have 4-bet. In a CTS video I have watched he refrained from 4-betting someone (who had been 3-betting him a fair amount) w/AQ because the hand had a little too much value and that he would have preferred some smaller suited connectors or such like in order to make that move. Is that because if he 4-bet and got shoved and had to call, AQ doesn't hold up well against the other guys range but smaller cards are live? If this is the case then surely he shouldn't be 4-betting at all if we think a good hand is in this guys range as I believe you stated we should go by feel of the moment?

How often do you 4-bet medium/small suited connectors etc and are you happy to call an all-in 5-bet shove from them knowing that even the worst end of their range is likely ahead of you? I assume we can't fold due to 100BB stacks.

Last question (sorry this is long and drawn out) - here a couple of quick stats... W$WSF is 35%, WTSD 23%, Won$AtSD 58%. Is this a huge problem my W$WSF being so low here and can this be attributed to my c-bet percentage being only 47%? I tend to prefer to c-bet in position on dodgy boards and check them OOP so I guess that could be a contributing factor. Are there any assumptions you could make about me based on those stats? I typically play a game that ranges from 19/17 to 22/18 depending on the table.

Thanks, your help is very much appreciated and I look forward to future videos from you!

- tehmac -

Hi Krantz,

First I want to congratulate you for the prinnyraid/whitelime series, it’s very good and I really enjoy it. Maybe you could do a follow up where you analyze key hands in poker tracker, maybe do EV-calcs (incl. fold equity) and talk a little why you put people on certain hands because of betting lines etc. That would be really educational IMO.

Now for my questions more related to this thread.

First question:
Let’s say you open for a raise preflop and get cold called behind. Now I think I have a leak where I C-bet way to much on the flop. But the problem I have is that I don’t know which hands to raise preflop and then check-call or check-raise on the flop, ‘cause if I don’t do this with some hands, the caller could bet with any two cards when I check, because he knows I will fold. So which hands or situations (or am I thinking about it wrong)?

Second question:
Why is it the donk-bet has such bad reputation? The reason c-bets are so effective is because 2/3 of the time(HU) nobody hits anything on the flop and the line goes check-bet-fold. But if we donk-bet we take away that advantage. Sure you could generalize and say that a donk-bet from a weak player is usually a vulnerable made hand (or draw) and you should just raise him out (and in the case of a stronger player it’s probably a very strong hand and we should fold), but we of course play with a much more balanced range than that. I mean there’s a lot of hands we want to bet, but really don’t want to check-raise.

I really question this “check to the raiser” stuff and I know that Doyle Brunson in Super System advocates betting into the raiser, but he only does it with his great hands, which would be extremely exploitable.

Thanks
And keep up the good work

TaBortMej

Thanks man. I'll be doing lots more "out-of-hand" analysis, like EV calcs and potentially G-bucks calcs, in my next series for Season Two. On to your questions!

1- This is almost too general for me to answer, so you might want to post some examples. Something I can say for sure though, is that some opponents will bet with any 2 when you check, and others won't, and the key to figuring this out is to think about which types of opponents are likely to bluff when you check and which are likely to have strong hands when they bet if you check. That stuff is often way more important than what hands you have.

2- You're right, it has a bad reputation. I think myself and durrrr are almost the only people who lead out as part of their general strategy. You just can't polarize your range. For instance, here's a cool hand that can only happen by leading:

Loose CO opens, you call in BB with QJs. Flop is Q27 with a flush draw, not yours, and you lead and get called. Turn is a 3 and you lead again and get called. River is a 2 and you shove and get called by TT.

TT is not stacking off if you check the flop. Sort of a radical example, but if you follow and think about how certain players and player types are likely thinking about your hand range for leading the flop, and then throwing in a curve ball and anticipating how they're reacting to your range with different parts of their range... you can be very effective here.

Leading out with a marginal hand like second pair and getting raised is not a problem, it's just unfamiliar territory.

Hey Krantz,

Loving the whitelime vs. pr1nnyraid series so far. I just signed up yesterday and have watched all your videos in the series thus far and have just began watching whitelime's videos. It really opened my eyes to a different way of thinking during hands and also where I was being a little too tight. I've been a member of 2 other training sites over the last year or so (still a member of one of them) and I have to say I'm very impressed with the instructional format presented at DeucesCracked - it is very different, entertaining and informative. I'm a 200NL regular and I switched to just playing 2 tables last night and really focussing on playing the players and the way I thought they were viewing me and vice versa with some great results, so thank you.

What are your thoughts on an optimal number of tables and what did you prefer when moving up through the ranks? I for the most part 4-6 table but following last nights experience I think I prefer to play 2 tables and get a far better feel for the game. My only concern is the fact that I do not get as many hands in and thus variance could be a huge pain, in that downswings will last for what feels like an eternity as a result of only getting in a few hundred hands per day. I'm not sure of how to balance this or if variance and number of hands should be largely ignored.

Another question was that of 4-betting (yep, another one!). In an earlier post you say that with 100BB stacks you should never fold after you have 4-bet. In a CTS video I have watched he refrained from 4-betting someone (who had been 3-betting him a fair amount) w/AQ because the hand had a little too much value and that he would have preferred some smaller suited connectors or such like in order to make that move. Is that because if he 4-bet and got shoved and had to call, AQ doesn't hold up well against the other guys range but smaller cards are live? If this is the case then surely he shouldn't be 4-betting at all if we think a good hand is in this guys range as I believe you stated we should go by feel of the moment?

How often do you 4-bet medium/small suited connectors etc and are you happy to call an all-in 5-bet shove from them knowing that even the worst end of their range is likely ahead of you? I assume we can't fold due to 100BB stacks.

Last question (sorry this is long and drawn out) - here a couple of quick stats... W$WSF is 35%, WTSD 23%, Won$AtSD 58%. Is this a huge problem my W$WSF being so low here and can this be attributed to my c-bet percentage being only 47%? I tend to prefer to c-bet in position on dodgy boards and check them OOP so I guess that could be a contributing factor. Are there any assumptions you could make about me based on those stats? I typically play a game that ranges from 19/17 to 22/18 depending on the table.

Thanks, your help is very much appreciated and I look forward to future videos from you!

- tehmac -

Muchas gracias!

I say mix it up! Play 4-5 tables when you're "grinding" and play 2 tables a few times/week as practice. You'll build your reading ability during those sessions and be able to apply it to the grind sessions and still get in enough hands.

On 4-betting: I don't NEVER 4-bet fold, I just don't 4-bet and fold a hand like AQ though (29s is another story!). I expect Cole didn't want to 4-bet because he thought that his opponent would just fold preflop and his hand had more value in that instance playing postflop. In that way, he'd rather take a hand that has little value postflop against a light 3-better and turn that into a bluff.

I think you should watch Stuffing the Penguin and pay attention to what Emil says about 4-betting. You can definitely 4-bet and fold to more action with 100bb stacks. An argument for calling, though, is that you always have SOME equity with suited connectors and it will likely make things easier against some opponents as they'll see you get all-in really bad and just only 3-bet you with big hands from then on.

I'm not the best authority on those stats so I don't want to give what could be wrong advice, but I think you could probably c-bet more and start gritting your teeth and double/triple barrel bluff more if you get called rather than just c-bet and give up (which I think is a fair assumption I could make about you given your c-bet%)

I guess I'll kind of rephrase my earlier question. Do you have any tips on learning how to play your A-game or close to it a higher percentage of the time, and avoiding completely stupid stuff when playing worse than your A-game?

Edit: Oh, and thanks for doing this, there's been some interesting posts in this thread.

I guess I'll kind of rephrase my earlier question. Do you have any tips on learning how to play your A-game or close to it a higher percentage of the time, and avoiding completely stupid stuff when playing worse than your A-game?

Edit: Oh, and thanks for doing this, there's been some interesting posts in this thread.

I'm sure KRANTZ has a good answer to this. I just want to plug Tommy Angelo's book because it's an awesome read so far and addresses this question in very good detail. In fact, the sections on A-game through C-game improvement and Quitting are my favorite parts.

http://www.tommyangelo.com/buy_EOP.html

Thanks for reminding me Kwantum. I checked out his website for the 1st time a few days ago and I'm planning on buying the book very soon.

Jay, just a comment more than a question.

I think HU is the truest form of poker. It would be really cool if a member could send you a HH from a HU session and throw it into a replayer and have you analyze and provide feedback. Charge based on number of hands or something. I would be willing to pay for this type of service.

Giants!