High Stakes Strategy Poker Forums

okay so the original raiser is a fish and ive been 3betting him quite a lot and ariel has been 4betting me ONCE i think but i am not too sure.

anyway the question is how loose this call preflop is? my thought process was that ariel can be def light here and doesnt have 99-TT even tho TT he perhaps 4bets every time.

therefore my plan was to flat given the price was ok and basically jam any draw on the flop when he bets and have solid FE or decent equity when called. also when flopped a pair like here i was pretty sure to have the best hand a lot of the time and make him jam overcards or a draw on my when he gets raised.

the questions how often i have a huge hand here is interesting because i think its really low unless i flat QQ as well as I for sure flat KK/AA here sometimes but i aint too sure about that either.

maybe my thought process is too positive given its vs ariel and not some bad reg whos taking a shot who might not even 4bet bluff in this spot.

let me know what you guys think about this hand as i think its pretty intersting. also lets say J8s is too weak to flat, whats the bottom of your range for flatting? do we just jam pp like 99? what do we do with say 77? looks to me like J8s is a better hand to flat than 77 given we can flop a draw which has more equity when we jam and get called by better.

also the flop is somewhat interesting as ariel told me that he had some % of air in my range when i raised the flop. im not too sure about that given what type of air do i raise? i mean KJ KQ maybe but thats it i guess? i probably rather flat given how small he bet to bluff future streets.

$10/$20 No Limit Holdem
5 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($2,644)
CO ($2,487.50)
Hero ($2,205.50)
SB ($2,191)
BB ($2,482)

Pre-Flop: ($30, 5 players) Hero is BTN J 8
1 fold, CO raises to $43, Hero raises to $160, SB raises to $440, 1 fold, CO folds, Hero calls $280

Flop: 8 6 5 ($943, 2 players)
SB bets $260, Hero raises to $560, SB goes all-in $1,751, Hero calls $1,191

Turn: 5 ($4,445, 2 players, 1 all-in)

River: 7 ($4,445, 2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $4,445
Hero shows
J 8
SB shows
Q A

Hero wins $4,441 (net +$2,250)

CO lost $43
SB lost $2,191

similar hand being discussed in HSNL on 2p2 right now: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/19/high-stakes-pl-nl/qq-100bb-deep-25-50-stars-749657/

I'd usually flat most all my hands against Ariel here... his flop play is def worse than yours :-)

Insyder; don't you think calling pre is more attractive than 3betting this in most cases?

Insyder; don't you think calling pre is more attractive than 3betting this in most cases?

ariel is gonna squeeze the shit outta you

ariel is gonna squeeze the shit outta you

yeah, or he's going to 4bet like crazy.

also the flop is somewhat interesting as ariel told me that he had some % of air in my range when i raised the flop. im not too sure about that given what type of air do i raise? i mean KJ KQ maybe but thats it i guess? i probably rather flat given how small he bet to bluff future streets.

Well the thing about raising is that you get a pretty good price on your bluff, Ariel shoves because he doesn't want to open himself up to being exploited by this (and assumes you call preflop with all sorts of hands, and probably don't raise one pair like this on the flop). Problem is - you are obv never raising him as a bluff, you're sitting there with KQ thinking "I can't raise, he's crazy, he'll just shove..."

Well the thing about raising is that you get a pretty good price on your bluff, Ariel shoves because he doesn't want to open himself up to being exploited by this (and assumes you call preflop with all sorts of hands, and probably don't raise one pair like this on the flop). Problem is - you are obv never raising him as a bluff, you're sitting there with KQ thinking "I can't raise, he's crazy, he'll just shove..."

agreed.

now based on your first post you don't like my flop raise? i think its by far the best play esp vs him.

not to derail the thread, but i watched insyder for a bit today and enjoyed the rail. i think there is a spot in this game, the game today on tilt, a russian?, i didnt watch too long and could be wrong and dont want to offend anyone but its always interesting to me when i see a weaker villan in a big game. not interesting as in hahaha look at this schlub, but more, as a gambler, why do some get involved for these amounts when they are obviously not as good.

agreed.

now based on your first post you don't like my flop raise? i think its by far the best play esp vs him.

yeah, you are right

yeah, or he's going to 4bet like crazy.

hes not gonna be 4bet bluffing nearly as often as 3bet squeezing when i overcall.

also there is no way i can rep a hand when i flat fish's open raise and get 3bet by ariel nearly as often as when i 3bet the fish right away and get 4bet by him.

hes not gonna be 4bet bluffing nearly as often as 3bet squeezing when i overcall.

also there is no way i can rep a hand when i flat fish's open raise and get 3bet by ariel nearly as often as when i 3bet the fish right away and get 4bet by him.

If hes not going to give you credit when you call and then 4b over his squeeze and you think hes going to be squeezing a lot, you should be flatting your big hands a high % to induce.

As far as this hand is concerned I'd rather be folding or jamming 8J suited and be more likely to take a flop with a hand 9J or TJ suited which will make straight draws more often .