High Stakes Strategy Poker Forums

Basic spot, but I rarely play this deep (and never at 10/20) so not sure what to do.

Villain is 25/18, 3bets and 4bets a lot, but this is the first time he has cold 4bet me. I dislike 5betting, as it seems we're turning our hand into a bluff and are still in an awkward spot postflop if we get flatted.

But if I flat the 4bet, it seems that I'll either c/f the best hand a lot, or end up putting in a lot of money when behind and not much when ahead.

Suggestions?


$2000.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 560948
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

CO: $5478.50
BTN: $2000.00
Hero (SB): $7083.00
BB: $7033.00
UTG: $1575.50
MP: $2354.00

Pre Flop: ($30.00) Hero is SB with K A
3 folds, BTN raises to $60, Hero raises to $220, BB raises to $580, 1 fold, Hero ?

It is not really possible to check/fold the best hand on the flop if he doesn't bluff, so calling and check/folding is an "exploitive" play if he doesn't bluff enough, where you can try and make top pair and win the pot with showdown value.

Shoving is fine if he bluffs with a reasonable frequency because you won't be a favourite when called, but he will fold some % too to make up for it.

If you don't think he every really bluffs and that this is KK+ almost always, then folding isn't going to get exploited, if he never knows what you had.

How have you been reacting to his 3bets and 4bets? Does he view you as lose, spewy or tight?

You have a great spot to 5b. Because stack sizes are on your side. Put in 15-20 percent of stack sizes with a wide range here. He has a very good spot to open 4b spot. Dont let him take advantage of it.

On one hand i would favour a 5 bet to say 1120 then you can still fold if he 6 bets. I know there are arguments for ak being ok versus his 6 betting range but i really think if he does 6 bet he almost always has aa, kk - occassionally he may bluff you off the best hand but i think thats rare. If i 5 bet here and missed the flop id prob try and check it down or check fold - cant go calling bets out of position against a tough player with what is most probably a strong holding.
Arguments for a fold are he has prob got a genuine hand as his 4 bet looks like its committing him to call the button if the button shoves.
i dont really like calling here as you out of position versus a tricky player.
Overall i would 5 bet as his 4 betting range here is quite wide but his calling and 6 betting range is a lot narrower. And if he does call i think you can discount liklihood of aa, kk as with stacks this deep he'll prob want to get more in preflop.

How have you been reacting to his 3bets and 4bets? Does he view you as lose, spewy or tight?

They mostly haven't involved me, and I had a tight-solid image I think.

You could 5-bet to 1200 or so and fold to more action to make it easier to play, but I'd call and PLAY SOME POKER!!!

(tough spot, shows how dangerous having the cold 4bet in your playbook can make you)

You could 5-bet to 1200 or so and fold to more action to make it easier to play!!

Jay would you ever do this??

Jay would you ever do this??

i would never do it but i'm pretty confident in my ability to get into hijinks postflop!

With your image it'd be correct for you to 5bet and call it off, right?

i would never do it but i'm pretty confident in my ability to get into hijinks postflop!

Even vs a complete unknown? (maybe you never have that problem though...ie. you know all the regs/fish before you join the table???)
If so what are you hoping for?

With your image it'd be correct for you to 5bet and call it off, right?

heh no, only a handful of players where that wouldnt be lighting money on fire this deep

Even vs a complete unknown? (maybe you never have that problem though...ie. you know all the regs/fish before you join the table???)
If so what are you hoping for?

if he is an unknown that doesn't mean i can't make a read on him - he is either a tight player with AA/KK or he is a tough player with a wide range

Last i heard 5 betting is still playing poker! By 5 betting you are disguising your hand somewhat and maintaining intiative in the hand - it allows you to represent aa and kk should you wish to do so. If i was in position post flop i would favour a call.
Looking at it from my point of view when i cold 4 bet and am called deep by opponent out of position i dont mind it as i know i can bet relatively small on most flops and take it down - however i dont like getting 5 bet (but thats just me). I think a good reg can play reasonably optimally here if you just call.
Also if opponent gets 5 bet it may discourage him from 4 betting you in the future.

Last i heard 5 betting is still playing poker! By 5 betting you are disguising your hand somewhat and maintaining intiative in the hand - it allows you to represent aa and kk should you wish to do so. If i was in position post flop i would favour a call.
Looking at it from my point of view when i cold 4 bet and am called deep by opponent out of position i dont mind it as i know i can bet relatively small on most flops and take it down - however i dont like getting 5 bet (but thats just me). I think a good reg can play reasonably optimally here if you just call.
Also if opponent gets 5 bet it may discourage him from 4 betting you in the future.

This is such an uncommon situation that metagame (5-betting to stop him from cold 4-betting you) isn't really worth thinking about. 5-bet with AJo and not AK if you think he is out of line...

Yeah i take your point - i would also consider 5 betting aj here. I just dont like calling out of position with this much money behind - stack sizes this deep favour the player in position so much. And ak will miss the flop most the time so youll end up folding the best hand a lot to a cbet. I take your point that you dont want to turn such a strong hand into kind of a bluff but by calling i think you play into opponents hands. I 4 bet quite a bit deep so maybe i think this comes up more often than it actually does.