Poker Video: MTT/SNG by Joe Tall (High Stakes)

I really enjoy the series, instead of having the one graphic up there the whole time why not have someone listen/produce/edit the podcast, and create the hand histories on the screen so its easier to follow stack sizes, positions, reads, hole cards, etc.

I really enjoy the series, instead of having the one graphic up there the whole time why not have someone listen/produce/edit the podcast, and create the hand histories on the screen so its easier to follow stack sizes, positions, reads, hole cards, etc.

We'll definitely be playing around with some new and different ideas for the graphical component. Bear in mind though that HH replayers and such things are significantly more complex, especially when reconstructed from live tournament hands! Still, we'll do what we can to make it awesome(r).

Time Link to 00:00:01

This is awesome. Thank you very very much for doing this. I have been hoping someone would do this. And I love that it is in a podcast so I can listen and not have to be locked to the computer.

GREAT JOB VANESSA!!!!

Lastly, if you play in a tournament and go relatively deep and have interesting hands, you could be a guest on the podcast. Send me an email to vanessa@deucescracked.com, subject: Tournamentality episode content. Then tell me about the tournament, about the hands you think are interesting, and about your analysis. Make it detailed, as I'm going to select people I think have thought deeply about the content so we can have a rich discussion. I hope to hear from you!

Cheers,
Vanessa

Does this go for online hands as well, or just B&M content?

Does this go for online hands as well, or just B&M content?

AMT as a special guest discussing hands from his recent tournament pwnage ftw!!!!!!!!!!!!

Does this go for online hands as well, or just B&M content?

Yeah, definitely send me online hands, and I will do my best to give advice, as good as it can be from a live fish like myself

Shouldnt we stack off with the AA hand.

So if SClemens range is TT-KK to cold call.

Pot is 12-13k

Fish donks 20k into us.

His range whilst weak - is not ATC - its prolly any board pair or better.

SC will prolly only overcalls sets - so even though he would only ever overcall when we are beat
If fish range has tonnes of Jx and Qx - surely combinatorically it becomes alot harder for SC to actually have a set.

So say 50% of the time SC 4bets KK.
Thats 3 combos of KK
6 combos of TT

And then 6 sets maximum - with some discount for fish actually having Qx and Jx in his range.

Joe is getting a really good price on his stack....

Would the dead money of 30k+ justify us stacking off - even if we are overcalled we are drawing to like 10% equity.

Final thing - isnt our cEV at this stage of the tourney so small - passing up a chance to stack up with a mega fish with massive stack a bad move on D2?

This type of thinking is definitely spot on, I just disagree with your primary assumptions.

I think Scott 4bets KK more than 50% - or I would assume he does... more like 4/5 - so <2 combos of KK. I also think he almost never has TT since Joe is a nit. His most likely holdings by far even after they only have 3 combos are JJ and QQ. add to that the fact that the fish has equity in the pot even if we're ahead... and usually a great deal of equity. KQ or JT type hands are really not very good for us to see here...

So you think the principle of not wanting to freeze out the fish does not apply?
I would have thought he would not want to cold 4-bet KK so the guy most likely to make a mistake stays in the hand - then do what he did stack off on any non A flop with compressed SPR and good relative position given fishes tendency to overbet donk.

Isnt that one of the possible consequences of the 3bet size of Joes - that KK is less likely in this spot to cold 4-bet? ( 4k+ and SC stack was 20-25k awkward 4bet betting options)

I mean he is never light - given Opener being a fish and Joe being a nit...so he just does not 4bet KK as often?

Obviously - you are an immensely better judge than me - and congrats on the Stars pro gig and the rungood.

Oh one more thing.

How short would Joe have to be relative to pot for this to be auto stack off in a deep 10k live tourney?

For the AA hand imo it doesn't matter if Scot's range is KK-TT and he never 4-bets KK pre. Two reasons:

1. utg has equity in the pot - even his purported wild range (does he really have no clue what Scot is doing?) defeats the AA a fair amount. if you add (combinatorically) this equity to Scot's, and consider the devastation of running into QQ-JJ 6/18 = 1/3 of the time, it's bad if the read of the KK-TT range is correct.

2. and even if it is not, we do NOT want to get involved in near-50-50 pots. the alternative is to fold and look for a better spot, namely a big hand, or a medium hand against the fish. Joe will have a 30K stack (60bb!) as a relative shorty with 2 hour rounds and a huge donator at the table. that's a juicy situation.

imo clear fold here. even if Joe's read of Scot's range is too narrow and you can throw in a bunch of AKs, I still want no part of it. the alternative is just too good. and what if Scot folds TT and AK routinely? what a huge cluster for us.


btw equity of folding is not zero. that is the best way of thinking about pots withing a hand, but horrible for long term and preflop. here folding allows you to participate in a good situation, whereas calling knocks you out maybe half the time and has you 2.5x the other half with a full KK-TT range. EV with these numbers is roughly 1.25stack with half chance of being knocked out. eff that. if it were a 20bb stack with fast levels and a table of nits you'd take it in a heartbeat, but not here.

Count me among those who benefit greatly from a podcast format. I often take walks looking for mp3s to listen to, so all the DC podcats are golden.

That said, here's some hopefully constructive feedback:

Vanessa and Joe both have a great teaching style, so hearing them go over hands is very valuable to me. I look forward to hearing Vanessa in future episodes.

The audio on Joe's side seemed a little sketchy, but my crappy Philips GoGear mp3 player makes everything sound a little sketchy.

One huge difference in audio and video is that repetition is more valuable in audio because we can't see the hole cards, stack sizes, etc. in front of us. There was one hand where Joe played J5s out of the blinds where I had to go back over it several times to understand his hole cards. I had trouble following the positions of the players on the AA laydown hand too, but that may have been a mistaken visualization on my end because everyone else seemed to pick it up fine.

In general I find repetition of hole cards a couple of times during the hand, along with maybe the pot size and stacks at each street, to be very helpful.

Quibbles and constructive criticism aside, this is a really solid podcast that benefited me a lot. I look forward to future eps., and I look forward to tournament videos too.

On repeating hand and action: +1.

If you listen to Bart Hanson talking about live hands - he is very good at repeating the action, holding and board so that it is easy to follow.
If you repeat his template - that would be great.

For the AA hand imo it doesn't matter if Scot's range is KK-TT and he never 4-bets KK pre. Two reasons:

1. utg has equity in the pot - even his purported wild range (does he really have no clue what Scot is doing?) defeats the AA a fair amount. if you add (combinatorically) this equity to Scot's, and consider the devastation of running into QQ-JJ 6/18 = 1/3 of the time, it's bad if the read of the KK-TT range is correct.

2. and even if it is not, we do NOT want to get involved in near-50-50 pots. the alternative is to fold and look for a better spot, namely a big hand, or a medium hand against the fish. Joe will have a 30K stack (60bb!) as a relative shorty with 2 hour rounds and a huge donator at the table. that's a juicy situation.

imo clear fold here. even if Joe's read of Scot's range is too narrow and you can throw in a bunch of AKs, I still want no part of it. the alternative is just too good. and what if Scot folds TT and AK routinely? what a huge cluster for us.


btw equity of folding is not zero. that is the best way of thinking about pots withing a hand, but horrible for long term and preflop. here folding allows you to participate in a good situation, whereas calling knocks you out maybe half the time and has you 2.5x the other half with a full KK-TT range. EV with these numbers is roughly 1.25stack with half chance of being knocked out. eff that. if it were a 20bb stack with fast levels and a table of nits you'd take it in a heartbeat, but not here.

1. Chip Leader Range : 99,AQs,KTs+,Q8s+,J9s+,T9s,KTo+,QTo+,JTo
Without any rando spazz monkey bluffs

2.Scott Clemens:KcKd,KdKh,KhKs,QQ-TT
50% KK 4bet freq

3. Joe : AdAs

on QJ9 rainbow

1. 34.7% equity
2. 37.8% equity
3. 27.4% equity

Pot is ~ 14k if 4400*3 + dead blind/antes

Joe 30k effective
Scott 21k effective

CL effectively donk shoves
Joe to call 30k to win 74k - needs 40% equity

If Chip leader never bluffs air
Joe has 43% equity vs 99,AQs,KTs+,Q8s+,J9s+,T9s,KTo+,QTo+,JTo

If Scott clemens is KcKd,KdKh,KhKs,QQ-TT thats 15 combos
If scott plays perfectly - he will fold 60% of the time.

So 60% of the time we will have 43% in 74k.
and
40% of the time we will have 8% of 77k + 43% of 20k side pot


Yeah - so it looks like a fold we would need pretty high bluff frequency combined with SC not playing perfectly and maybe some more dead money.


Does that look right?

Didn't read all the replies but I thought this was great. Vanessa talking advanced MTT hands with quality guests. What more could you want?