JKarioun
3 posts
Joined 02/2009
Time Link to 00:03:47
Ultra standard, even with K8o imo. When he posts his BB and checks, he had the option to raise, so he started with any two, and now that he checked, we can discount the better hands from his range, so any two is ahead of his range. I think we pick up the dead money so often that this is a no brainer raise preflop.
Posted over 1 year ago
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mitch
1582 posts
Joined 01/2008
Time Link to 00:44:50
KK KT9ss donk and get raised: Ok so assuming his range is QJ/big combo draws I agree calling the raise here is better than shoving. Obviously we're check/folding spade/J/Q turns, but say turn comes 2h how are we proceeding? With $50 in the pot and 80$ effective stacks we pretty much have no other option than donking it for pot right?
Posted over 1 year ago
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mitch
1582 posts
Joined 01/2008
Time Link to 00:35:40
QJ68dd on 983dd 4way: Because of # of players and we're only 2nd to act (probably not going to have position for turn + river) what do you guys think about check/deciding (probably folding if CO bets and btn calls, and calling most other situations)? I definitely think it's a bet 3way and probably 4 way if we're CO but considering that we only have 4 nut or nut-nut outs I feel it's going to be hard to extract value/limit losses on later streets. Even if say a 7d comes on the turn it's a bet then check/probably fold river spot which kind of sucks.
Posted over 1 year ago
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asdrubale
18 posts
Joined 06/2008
Time Link to 00:44:46
the KK top set hando n the KT9 board. I think nowhereman is right, if we decide that villain is bluffing enough we are better off shoveling it in rather than calling.
First, there should be some worse hand villain is raising for value, like set+flush draws. If we count that, the times he is folding, and the fact that we have good equity against the nuts anyway, shoving can never be too big of a mistake.
By calling we give villain a ton of options. We don't know his bluffing frequency on the turn so on any card other than a board pair we can easily be making a huge mistake either calling OR folding. Plus he can take two free cards if he wishes and backdoor his way in a dumb straight or a 7 hi flush; even though we have top set it's very easy for him to have 20%+ equity with 4 random cards and we'd rather have him fold that, because he can play much better than we can being in position.
Posted over 1 year ago
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Ansky
Exec Producer
265 posts
Joined 08/2009
Ultra standard, even with K8o imo. When he posts his BB and checks, he had the option to raise, so he started with any two, and now that he checked, we can discount the better hands from his range, so any two is ahead of his range. I think we pick up the dead money so often that this is a no brainer raise preflop.
Didn't realize it was a post, thought it was a limp. My bad.
Posted over 1 year ago
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mitch
1582 posts
Joined 01/2008
Time Link to 00:53:49
AsQQx Q765ssss - I definitely think calling here and shoving over a half pot river bet is a really cool bluff, I also think it reps the A high flush much better and he'll be bet small/folding his K/J high flushes here as he figures a lot of our range is smaller flushes.
Also on the off chance he's bluffing here with 66/77 we stack him on board pairs and get another bet if he decides to bluff river.
Seeing as though there'll be $55 in the pot and $75 effective stacks what is the inflection point here where he bets so large we don't have enough left behind to bluff? I feel like it's around 28. And what are we doing if he checks on blanks? Obv it doesn't matter if our top set has showdown value or not, just how many better hands we can make him fold on the river, and seeing as though we'd only need him to fold ~40% of the time depending on betsize I think what we have to consider here is what he's doing with J/T high flushdraws as it doesn't really matter if he's calling with K high FD 100%
Also (maybe it doesn't matter) what timing would we want when we shove over his river bet? wait 3 or 4 seconds? 10? instant? who cares?
Posted over 1 year ago
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mitch
1582 posts
Joined 01/2008
First, there should be some worse hand villain is raising for value, like set+flush draws.
By calling we give villain a ton of options. We don't know his bluffing frequency on the turn so on any card other than a board pair we can easily be making a huge mistake either calling OR folding. Plus he can take two free cards if he wishes and backdoor his way in a dumb straight or a 7 hi flush;
If we're calling and potting safe turns:
1)it's actually a better play vs set+flushdraw hands as we play perfectly vs him if we're assuming he checks back J/Q turns (which seems reasonable)
2)only gets 1 free card
Posted over 1 year ago
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halvadron
255 posts
Joined 06/2009
mitch
1582 posts
Joined 01/2008
Curtlow
449 posts
Joined 07/2008
asdrubale
18 posts
Joined 06/2008
If we're calling and potting safe turns:
1)it's actually a better play vs set+flushdraw hands as we play perfectly vs him if we're assuming he checks back J/Q turns (which seems reasonable)
2)only gets 1 free card
and you get it in with half the equity against QJ.
Posted over 1 year ago
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mitch
1582 posts
Joined 01/2008
and you get it in with half the equity against QJ.
interestingly it's not as simple as that and has some more factors:
- it's pretty irrelevant if he's not folding turn if board pairs; with the flushdraw out there and maybe opponent thinks we're dumb enough to lead turn with trips + draw and just jam over our psb turn lead on KT99, although maybe he folds.
- we save money/get to see 2 cards/maybe can bluff river and win with worst hand when spade comes and he checks back turn.
Posted over 1 year ago
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chrisbroholm
222 posts
Joined 07/2008
cwil81
31 posts
Joined 01/2008