chipchucker5
Coach
332 posts
Joined 02/2008
Isn't there merit to cbet the TT on this kind of board?
He can call us with so many worse hands, 7x, 6x, gutshots, weak FDs and there are so many ugly turn cards.
Absolutely there's merit to cbetting that board. I doubt we're getting floated with gutters very often fwiw. But yeah, FDs, 78s, A7s, 65s and 98s can all call. However, checking back to get closer to SD, induce bluffs, and strengthen our flop checking back range are all good reasons to check back imo.
Posted almost 2 years ago
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chipchucker5
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Joined 02/2008
QQ where we coldcall the 3bet and bet the turn:
Do you really have some slowplayed AA or KK in your range in this spot?
Isn't that a horrible spot to slowplay, being deep with the 3bettor and most likely having a 3way pot cause pairofnothin gets amazing odds?
KK might be fine to slowplay sometimes, cause we can't be that excited to get it in this deep after cold4betting (obv this is +EV but he can sure have a ton of AA then), but AA I think I'd 4bet close to 100% of the time.
Yes I can show up with AA/KK here, but as I talked about earlier, it's really player dep. The best spot to do it is against someone w/ a very high 3bet % OTB because he'll have all sorts of garbage like 85s, K4s, A3o, J8s, etc etc. And it's awesome when those hands either cbet their air against us or flop top pair and lose a ton of money. As far as giving jeckjeck really good odds, that's not really a bad thing w/ AA/KK because we're giving him good odds w/ hands like T9, QJ, KT, A5s. So again, it's good when we get to the flop against these hands instead of forcing them to fold pf. It's also good for protecting our medium strength hands like 77/88 that we'll have here that will want to get to SD.
WRT not being excited about getting AIPF w/ KK, that's just absolutely not the case. We're not THAT deep (only 150bbs) and it's BU v SB and I have a very aggro image. If we 4bet, I'm fist pump getting it in.
Posted almost 2 years ago
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chipchucker5
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What do you think of his 4betting size here?
Doesn't something like 108-112$ do the same job?
yeah, I like $112 does the same thing. I guess maybe he thinks I might fold hands like AJ/AQ to $128 and may shove over $112 (which is flawed logic). But I think making smaller 4bets is going to be best for his overall range.
Posted almost 2 years ago
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chipchucker5
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Joined 02/2008
TT on the top right:
I usually tend to make it 40$ instead of 34$ in this spot to get more value preflop and not give him such a good price to call in position.
Do you think thats a leak or are both sizes fine?
It's sort of just s stylistic thing, mainly depending on how light you want to be 3betting people. Since I 3bet a ton and will have air a good amount, I'd like to make it a bit smaller w/ my whole range so I save a little money the times he 4bets and I have to fold. That said, 4xing it is fine and I see a lot of good players do it as a standard. There's a greater incentive to 3bet bigger if it's a villain that will make your life difficult when they have pos on you.
Posted almost 2 years ago
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Poemmel
813 posts
Joined 03/2009
WRT not being excited about getting AIPF w/ KK, that's just absolutely not the case. We're not THAT deep (only 150bbs) and it's BU v SB and I have a very aggro image. If we 4bet, I'm fist pump getting it in.
It's just because it's a cold4bet.
Prolly my fullring background 
Thanks a lot for answering all my questions!
Posted almost 2 years ago
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MattiValto
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chipchucker5
Coach
332 posts
Joined 02/2008
Table 3:
If you had something like JJ or QQ there how it's different than 88 against this villains raise range here on turn or on the river? Or do you mean he should raise against your trip x hands? Thanks =)
It's really not a lot different, but if say he shoved the turn and I have QQ, he could conceivably be overplaying hands like 99-JJ. What I meant in the video was that he missed value against my range. Like if I have KK and he shoves the turn, I have to just make a crying call.
Posted almost 2 years ago
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buddy_reno
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Caysche
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KRANTZ
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Joined 07/2007
What hands if any are you calling 3bets OOP with 100bb deep?
gonna jump in and say questions like this are really bad questions to ask someone. it doesn't teach you anything other than a "system", and that is not how you learn to get better at poker. secondly, you shouldn't put a coach in a position where they feel obligated to give away very valuable information about their ranges in certain situations.
golden rule of asking questions about poker: ask why, not what.
Posted almost 2 years ago
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beachbum
102 posts
Joined 01/2008
Table 3:
If you had something like JJ or QQ there how it's different than 88 against this villains raise range here on turn or on the river? Or do you mean he should raise against your trip x hands? Thanks =)
It's really not a lot different, but if say he shoved the turn and I have QQ, he could conceivably be overplaying hands like 99-JJ. What I meant in the video was that he missed value against my range. Like if I have KK and he shoves the turn, I have to just make a crying call.
I think the river is a pretty interesting street. Let's construct his range for flatting the turn: Axcc, A5x, A4s, A3s, A2s, JJ-66, 65s, 76s 87cc, 86cc, 33-55. Sometimes the value hands that have you beat raise the turn, and sometimes the hand with picked up FD's raise. So the Ten doesn't change his range almost at all on the river. How often do you just thinly value bet here, and how often do you c/c to induce? This is a spot I struggle with a lot. I know it depends on whether he's capable of bluffing with a missed draw or turning a worse made hand like 56s into a bluff. It also depends on your 3barrel bluff tendencies, thin value betting tendencies, etc. But in this spot, I don't really see a lot of worse hands that call your 3rd barrel. Thoughts?
Posted almost 2 years ago
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chipchucker5
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Joined 02/2008
a) What about check/raising that flop?
b) And if you do check/call the flop why not donk the turn, because he is checking a lot behind being scared of your monsters?
c/c has to be better than a c/r here. If he has TP+, he's likely stacking off really often since we don't have a ton of money behind. Raising just gets him to fold his air..which he'll actually have here fairly often when he bets the flop imo. Same idea as continuing to check on the turn and river..if he has air, we give him another chance to bluff. And if he has a made hand, he's prob just gonna bet it himself (at least on one of the streets) because we look a lot like 2nd pair or AK/AQ when we just c/c.
Posted almost 2 years ago
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chipchucker5
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I think the river is a pretty interesting street. Let's construct his range for flatting the turn: Axcc, A5x, A4s, A3s, A2s, JJ-66, 65s, 76s 87cc, 86cc, 33-55. Sometimes the value hands that have you beat raise the turn, and sometimes the hand with picked up FD's raise. So the Ten doesn't change his range almost at all on the river. How often do you just thinly value bet here, and how often do you c/c to induce? This is a spot I struggle with a lot. I know it depends on whether he's capable of bluffing with a missed draw or turning a worse made hand like 56s into a bluff. It also depends on your 3barrel bluff tendencies, thin value betting tendencies, etc. But in this spot, I don't really see a lot of worse hands that call your 3rd barrel. Thoughts?
I don't think c/cing river makes much sense since he basically always has a pair..except the Axcc floats (which I think are pretty rare in this spot fwiw) and maybe like A6s and he may even check back A high anyway. And I highly doubt anyone is turning 5x into a bluff there..I mean what is he trying to get me to fold? An overpair?
As far as our river play, I think it's a vbet, but it's def kinda thin. His big hands get discounted twice after not raising the flop or the turn, so here are my estimates.
Hands that beat us:
A2s(2), 54s(.5), A4s(1), 64s(1), 33(1), 44(.5), 55(1), 76s(1.5) = 14.5 combos
Hands we beat:
66(5), 77(6), A5s(3), 65s(2), 75s(2) = 18 combos.
So even if he folds 65s everytime and 75s half the time, a bet is still going to show a profit. It's also good for your overall game to be able to show up value betting thinly because it'll open up more bluffing opportunities since your vbetting range will be wider than most people's.
Posted almost 2 years ago
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byang
45 posts
Joined 03/2009
Hi chipchucker really nice video especially the parts about 3 and 4 betting. There was a hand at the top right table late in the video where you had A2s on the CO I think and folded to an open from UTG I believe. I can't for the life of me find the time in the video. But can you explain your reasons for folding? Thanks
Posted almost 2 years ago
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surfdoc
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Joined 02/2007