Poker Video: Limit Hold'Em by DeathDonkey (High Stakes)

Very interesting so far, I'll finish the video tonight.

The two hands where there is a monotone board on the flop, the one with J8 I think you guys nailed it, I wonder if anything changes if alltimelow and angus switch places. The AQ one I would play like you do, but now I'm not sure anymore and see merits in all three options. And the ensuing discussion is awesome as well.

And more of mikel's thereoms plz.

Awesome series and pls make as many episodes as possible.

22 min in.

CO w/ TT vs. alltimelow's AQ OTB. seems like both you guys hate his line here. your tone of voice when you say how "standard" his play is makes it sound like a bad thing.

i find nothing wrong with alltimelow's play. especially since he doesnt know of deathdonkey's strategy of never taking the lead by 3betting or capping HU+OOP. if i were in his spot and i got CRed on a 6-high twotone flop given the prevous action i'd 3bet there because most importantly i'd think i likely had the best hand. But also for the reasons you guys called "mediocre" and "standard". (although i probably wouldnt take the checkback the turn+call the river line mike l. talks about. i'd prob follow through on the turn and take it from there.)

as i listened to you guys trash alltimelows play i couldnt help but wonder "since when did standard become such a bad thing?"

on the hand with AQh on K59 I definitely think he has Ah here a ton. Bad players see the nut draw and go crazy, he is not weighing whether it is better to force you out of w/ a worse heart.

good video, I have enjoyed it thus far!

although i hardly ever play lhe these days...

wow didn't think he would show up the way he did, Wp caution!

Hey Jackson,

Yeah we were being sarcastic about saying "standard" because we see lots of bad players just mindlessly 3 bet the flop with over cards. I think your assumption that AQ high could be good on a 6 high board when I checkraise to be really problematic. For one, even if it is good, unless you are planning to 3 bet the flop and call down a 4 bet you'll never get to find out and putting it that much action against my range just because the flop came 6 high is not going to be good. More often than not players that 3 bet the flop with overcards in this spot are intending to check behind turn and call any river (even mike l. advocates this play at other times and we fight about it a lot) and I think vs my preflop style and even flop aggression level that's a disaster.

Around 70 minutes in where DD check/raised second pair and villain 3-bet his 7-hi flushdraw on a K-J-8 board.

I think Mike L. needs to take a look at the math behind raising for a free card in HU pots before he continues promoting it so vigorously. You have about 38% equity with your naked draw so by 3-betting the flop you lose .62SB the times you don't get capped (which is usually a bigger concern HU).

If you just call you save that .62SB that you would have spent raising the flop and instead put 2SB in the pot calling the turn (if you missed) at about 21% equity if you didn't pair up. If you do hit a pair it gets more complicated cause then your equity increases to 32% but there's reverse implied odds issues involved so lets just assume your increased equity and RIO cancel each other out for simplicity.

So you lose 79% of those 2SB that you called with on the turn which equals 1.58SB. So the net gain of raising for a free card is 0.96SB.

When you do hit your flush you will usually gain 1BB in implied odds so that's 0.38BB = 0.72SB in value. So in essence the two plays are pretty close in value given my simplistic assumptions. And you guard yourself against a flop cap.

There is of course the issue that villain could be bluffing so he won't pay you off when we hit but then we need to start considering if it's worth capping the flop or calling and raising the turn to buy ourselves fold equity vs a likely semi-bluff.

(I hope my math is correct)

uhm just a sidenote: planet poker _was_ in fact rigged

This episode pretty much sealed the deal that mike l. has been massively leveling everyone with his advice.

There is nothing I like more than someone who 3bets the flop with overcards for the free card play. You see this especially in live games, where you defend the bb and cr a rag or drawy flop. Live you can buy alot of fe in this spot by 4betting and barreling. Numerous times I have seen players fold the turn, ui. Its pretty hilarious. Online is different, bc they will 3bet, call the 4bet, and call down unless the board comes horrendous, but that is also ok, because when they 3bet the flop and we have draws, we know our pair outs are good (making the 4bet straight value play) and when we have pairs we get much more value.

Good discussion as allways!

I don't really get the SB strategy vs alltimelow. I mean why not start limping? Since he 3-bet close to 100% we don't get any initiative and we almost never steal the blinds. I also think he wins the majoriy of these pots because:

1) He never folds anything with show-down value
2) Because of 1) DD (correctly) semi-bluffs him rarely.

So he wins whenever he has the best hand AND when both of you miss.

We have everything to gain from keeping the pot small.

Sushi I think you are right, as I said in the last several episodes I certainly didn't adjust as well during the recorded session as we were/are able to do with the full lengthy analysis during the series. In my defense, we are watching one hour of play spaced out over 4 episodes (eps 3-6) so far so certainly its not shocking to play an hour and not have figured out a perfect counterstrategy to your opponents play style. That said, the information is clearly there and had I been playing my A+ game I would have better taken advantage of the situation, and done as you suggest. I really like the idea of limping from the sb vs alltimelow.

Thats fair. I mean I make zillions of misstakes that I see when I review (and many misstakes that I don't see, but I get help with in the forums). I guess this goes backs to last weeks main concept (maybe I should call this "sushis theorem"?):

DD ~= human.

(I had to put a '~', because you are a bit too good to be pure flesh and bone)

Just wanted to add. The first time I learned the concept of limping vs this player type was in Mano a Mule episode .

well put wolfram. im more used to live play where almost all the players play passively after a flop 3 bet unless they have a set or something. there are quite a few fishy players online who you are able to bully this way on the flop, but they become fewer and fewer as you move up in limits so my advice may in fact be nearly obsolete when it comes to 20-40 and higher. i do think mixing in the occasional free card play will irritate or confuse your better opponents into capping some flops they shouldnt sometimes, though encouraging good players to be even more aggressive in short games is not really the best strategy...