Off Topic Poker Forums

lol it was obv a joke

You have the weirdest sense of humour - don't see how pointing out to people that downloading this book is the way to go rather than paying for it is funny. Surprised Improva takes it so well, since you can easily infer from the post that you have downloaded the book of the net.

If anything this has been a good advertisement for Improva's "package" I had no idea it existed

If anything this has been a good advertisement for Improva's "package" I had no idea it existed

Yup great to know we can download this for free rather than paying for it. Bunch of muppets

@Improva, I'll take your non-response as no

@Improva, I'll take your non-response as no

If prefer to handle support over email

Is there a place that I can just download your support for free?

You have the weirdest sense of humour - don't see how pointing out to people that downloading this book is the way to go rather than paying for it is funny. Surprised Improva takes it so well, since you can easily infer from the post that you have downloaded the book of the net.

obv i did, but like you should know, and how improva already mentoined.
the book is 'outdated' being that its a couple of years old (there are also new version of the book, wich i havent found on the net, maybe i didnt search hard enough).
and the book in itself is probably worth a lot, its the extras that makes it this special.
the coaching sessions, ability to talk to him on chat & the video content is what makes this a nice asset, if you are willing to pay for it.

Its like your favorite band. you probably all downloaded there music, who can blame us, its free & its fun.
but we cant download there concerts, well we can, but being at the concert & hearing the music live, having the time of our lives. OR watching it behind your computer are 2 totaly different things.

If you are really into poker its a shame you havent downloaded all the interesting content that is available to download on the net.
improvas book being one of them. but then again. when i said : why buy something that you can download on the internetz
i was being funny, because i know that the book is just the tip of the iceberg, and with the whole package you have SOOOO much more.

iv taken coaching sessions with both blah234 & threads13, so i really dont feel the need to defend myself because im a leecher or whatever
just saying, that if you have the chance to download free conent, amazing content, that will make your poker game better, then it would be dumb not to.
again, not saying that paying for it is dumb because you can download it. Because its not the book that takes the most costs, its everything that comes with it.

and tbh, dont know how improva thinks of it. But there are proabbaly a lot of people that bought the book + all the extras, AFTER they downloaded his first version of the book online. because it was so amazing they knew he was worth wathever he charges for it.

btw i also downloaded coaching kristy 1 & 2 for free, the thin red line
a couple of books like treat your poker like a busines, the mental game etc.
i also had a couple of paying months here at DC after i saw the first episodes of coaching kristy.
And i also bought the mental game after reading it on pc...

obv i did, but like you should know, and how improva already mentoined.
the book is 'outdated' being that its a couple of years old (there are also new version of the book, wich i havent found on the net, maybe i didnt search hard enough).
and the book in itself is probably worth a lot, its the extras that makes it this special.
the coaching sessions, ability to talk to him on chat & the video content is what makes this a nice asset, if you are willing to pay for it.

Its like your favorite band. you probably all downloaded there music, who can blame us, its free & its fun.
but we cant download there concerts, well we can, but being at the concert & hearing the music live, having the time of our lives. OR watching it behind your computer are 2 totaly different things.

If you are really into poker its a shame you havent downloaded all the interesting content that is available to download on the net.
improvas book being one of them. but then again. when i said : why buy something that you can download on the internetz
i was being funny, because i know that the book is just the tip of the iceberg, and with the whole package you have SOOOO much more.

iv taken coaching sessions with both blah234 & threads13, so i really dont feel the need to defend myself because im a leecher or whatever
just saying, that if you have the chance to download free conent, amazing content, that will make your poker game better, then it would be dumb not to.
again, not saying that paying for it is dumb because you can download it. Because its not the book that takes the most costs, its everything that comes with it.

and tbh, dont know how improva thinks of it. But there are proabbaly a lot of people that bought the book + all the extras, AFTER they downloaded his first version of the book online. because it was so amazing they knew he was worth wathever he charges for it.

btw i also downloaded coaching kristy 1 & 2 for free, the thin red line
a couple of books like treat your poker like a busines, the mental game etc.
i also had a couple of paying months here at DC after i saw the first episodes of coaching kristy.
And i also bought the mental game after reading it on pc...

If anything you cant call the guy dishonest

obv i did, but like you should know, and how improva already mentoined.
the book is 'outdated' being that its a couple of years old (there are also new version of the book, wich i havent found on the net, maybe i didnt search hard enough).
and the book in itself is probably worth a lot, its the extras that makes it this special.
the coaching sessions, ability to talk to him on chat & the video content is what makes this a nice asset, if you are willing to pay for it.

Its like your favorite band. you probably all downloaded there music, who can blame us, its free & its fun.
but we cant download there concerts, well we can, but being at the concert & hearing the music live, having the time of our lives. OR watching it behind your computer are 2 totaly different things.

If you are really into poker its a shame you havent downloaded all the interesting content that is available to download on the net.
improvas book being one of them. but then again. when i said : why buy something that you can download on the internetz
i was being funny, because i know that the book is just the tip of the iceberg, and with the whole package you have SOOOO much more.

iv taken coaching sessions with both blah234 & threads13, so i really dont feel the need to defend myself because im a leecher or whatever
just saying, that if you have the chance to download free conent, amazing content, that will make your poker game better, then it would be dumb not to.
again, not saying that paying for it is dumb because you can download it. Because its not the book that takes the most costs, its everything that comes with it.

and tbh, dont know how improva thinks of it. But there are proabbaly a lot of people that bought the book + all the extras, AFTER they downloaded his first version of the book online. because it was so amazing they knew he was worth wathever he charges for it.

btw i also downloaded coaching kristy 1 & 2 for free, the thin red line
a couple of books like treat your poker like a busines, the mental game etc.
i also had a couple of paying months here at DC after i saw the first episodes of coaching kristy.
And i also bought the mental game after reading it on pc...

Ohhhh, now I get your joke. It's funny because you only steal things that can be stolen. Good one.

Obviously OP is Improva's gimmick account to promote his service

Ohhhh, now I get your joke. It's funny because you only steal things that can be stolen. Good one.

in all seriousness, digital piracy is a service issue. 0's and 1's which can be copied infinitely do not deserve protection. i cannot steal something when you have lost nothing, in particular the fabled "lost sale," when i never intended to buy it at an artificially unsellable price when a free option was available to me. it would not be rational to do so. the lost sale can only be defended on moral grounds, and morality based on false, outmoded analogies at that.

offer a better service than the digital pirates (DeucesCracked does this), and you will have my business and my respect.

in all seriousness, digital piracy is a service issue. 0's and 1's which can be copied infinitely do not deserve protection. i cannot steal something when you have lost nothing, in particular the fabled "lost sale," when i never intended to buy it at an artificially unsellable price when a free option was available to me. it would not be rational to do so. the lost sale can only be defended on moral grounds, and morality based on false, outmoded analogies at that.

offer a better service than the digital pirates (DeucesCracked does this), and you will have my business and my respect.

This is circular logic. You're saying that because you'd steal (yes, intellectual property theft is still theft) something, it has no value, thus you can steal it. I do not agree with how out of control copyright laws have gotten, but the idea that intellectual property should have no value because it can be distributed digitally is preposterous to me. If the book was valueless to you, you wouldn't download it.

on the topic of this i hear alot about people having access to coaching vids thru pirate sites ect ect and these ebooks.....that just kinda sucks to me as i pay a subscription for the real deal asit were....but the reason i dont do it personally is that i dont mind paying a fair price for a good product.

This is circular logic. You're saying that because you'd steal (yes, intellectual property theft is still theft) something, it has no value, thus you can steal it. I do not agree with how out of control copyright laws have gotten, but the idea that intellectual property should have no value because it can be distributed digitally is preposterous to me. If the book was valueless to you, you wouldn't download it.

it's only circular logic if you beg the question.

since i have read your words and reprinted it on my screen (and even quoted it!), then i have "stolen" your words by your logic. if people do not want their intellectual property disseminated, they would not write books. the fact that they still do so with the assumption that outmoded laws will protect their profits based on 20th century market dynamics is another matter.

and making laws that cannot be enforced to protect that which cannot be protected is a waste of resources.

"Anyone in a free society where the laws are unjust has an obligation to break the law." - Henry David Thoreau

since i have read your words and reprinted it on my screen, then i have "stolen" your words by your logic. if people do not want their intellectual property disseminated, they would not write books.

Do you really think there is no difference between a public forum post and an ebook?

By posting them on a public forum, I have implicitly granted permission for anyone to read my words. If I publish them in a book that I offer for $1,000,000, there is nothing to indicate that you have a right to that information. If you think that's an unreasonable price, you have the option of not purchasing it.

I think we're not going to see eye to eye on this, but perhaps we can at least agree to not discourage people from purchasing materials from respected members of the DC community if that is against the wishes of the copyright holder?

I don't get this whole trend of actively trying to disincentivize people from producing good content. Sure you might not agree with intellectual property but going into the threads of the people who are producing the content that you are taking and then telling other people that they are stupid for buying it is both counter productive to your interests and insulting to the people who produced the content.

Do you really think there is no difference between a public forum post and an ebook?

By posting them on a public forum, I have implicitly granted permission for anyone to read my words. If I publish them in a book that I offer for $1,000,000, there is nothing to indicate that you have a right to that information. If you think that's an unreasonable price, you have the option of not purchasing it.

I think we're not going to see eye to eye on this, but perhaps we can at least agree to not discourage people from purchasing materials from respected members of the DC community if that is against the wishes of the copyright holder?

Well put Nixon

I don't get this whole trend of actively trying to disincentivize people from producing good content. Sure you might not agree with intellectual property but going into the threads of the people who are producing the content that you are taking and then telling other people that they are stupid for buying it is both counter productive to your interests and insulting to the people who produced the content.

agreed.


Nawhead, I bet if the tables were turned and it was you who invested countless hours producing material which you hoped to make available for purchase, you would feel differently.

Now I know I may possibly not be one to talk bad about those who participate in piracy (I may possibly have downloaded a movie or two in my time) but I do know that when I did produce some software, and it was uploaded to torrent sites with a crack, I was incensed. Over time, I realized there was nothing I could do about it and moved on... but if someone were to blatantly advertise the fact it was freely available in a forum I participated in and where I advertised its sale... It would be like rubbing salt into a wound.

There is no need to do such a thing to anyone (let alone Improva who has never warranted such action). I also would like to believe the rest of the DC community would find such actions deplorable.

whatever the price improva is charging now is worth it. i read his first book a couple of years ago and have been paid back many many many times over

I don't get this whole trend of actively trying to disincentivize people from producing good content. Sure you might not agree with intellectual property but going into the threads of the people who are producing the content that you are taking and then telling other people that they are stupid for buying it is both counter productive to your interests and insulting to the people who produced the content.

i highly doubt improva wrote a book to replace or even significantly supplement his poker income, but maybe i'm totally off on this. yet even on the assumption he was looking to make a lot of money, he's a smart enough guy to know the market for poker books is very small, and yet he still put a lot of effort into it. there's more to human incentives than money. and according to recent studies, we now know that monetary incentives for creativity (beyond subsistence) is a myth.

if people want to spend money on things when there are free alternatives, that's none of my business. my real intent was to defend having free access to intellectual works as a good thing, something that increases total human knowledge, emphatically not the same as stealing authorship or stealing unpublished works, and absolutely nothing to be ashamed of.

Nawhead, I bet if the tables were turned and it was you who invested countless hours producing material which you hoped to make available for purchase, you would feel differently.

it's not about how i would feel, it's about being realistic. back a hundred years ago, i'm sure horse buggy manufacturers felt bad when cars were taking away their business, but just feeling bad doesn't excuse being unrealistic about a business in changing times.

Am I stuck in a dream?

this


is getting out of hand...

Do you really think there is no difference between a public forum post and an ebook?

By posting them on a public forum, I have implicitly granted permission for anyone to read my words. If I publish them in a book that I offer for $1,000,000, there is nothing to indicate that you have a right to that information. If you think that's an unreasonable price, you have the option of not purchasing it.

I think we're not going to see eye to eye on this, but perhaps we can at least agree to not discourage people from purchasing materials from respected members of the DC community if that is against the wishes of the copyright holder?

i apologize to improva for derailing his thread, and i don't wish him ill will in any way. i came off too strong before (especially the Thoreau quote), but trying to make someone feel bad for just wanting to learn sucks so bad, and i had to say something.

and comparing a forum post to a book was a bad analogy. but imo, merely making a work available for public consumption is a conscious desire to put information out into the world. once a thought is out in the wild through your conscious intent, regardless of the price of that first copy, you don't get to say who gets access to it anymore. intellectual property as analogous to physical property is a myth. you can repeat it as often as you want, but when i am taking nothing from you and do not claim authorship of your ideas, i cannot have stolen from you.

how have i stolen from you? what do you have less of that you had before? how can you quantitatively prove it? it's nonsense.

Whether or not intellectual property is analogous to physical property isn't my issue with your post, I just think it's massively disrespectful to the author to go posting in one of their threads saying that people are being stupid for buying their work. If you don't believe in intellectual property that's your prerogative but making posts in these threads is just a dick move.

Am I stuck in a dream?

That would explain the unicorns.