Live Poker Poker Forums

Page 2: AA in the BB

or track by Email or RSS


HRPaperstacks

Avatar for HRPaperstacks

2192 posts
Joined 07/2009

What position did he open from pre?

I don't like flatting pre unless the opener is a nit who instafolds KK to any raise and I don't like flatting any player type if they opened the CO or BTN.

The x/r on the flop is crazy strong, so when he calls it, look out! He's telling you he has garbage two-pair beat or he's a calling station with any draw. After flatting pre, I like a donk lead on that flop much more and again, if he calls it, proceed with caution.

On the turn, what would you do if you were on a draw? Filled up? Made trips? What's a reasonable hand to rep for flat pre, x/r flop, paired turn that makes a flush? Particularly after he calls the flop? 180ish in the pot with 310 behind, I dunno, any line pretty much sucks. I guess I lead 100 and if he calls, shove the river, but I'm not happy about it.

Compare to raise pre to 50, he calls, 100 in the pot with 300 behind on the flop, I lead 75, he calls (if he raises anything more than min, I probably dump out -- depends on how bluffy he is, but live 1/2 I tend to give credit to post-flop raises on a flop like that). Now there's 250 in the pot with 225 behind. I probably check there and see what he does. Most live players will check their whole range back there, particularly boats, or maybe bet silly small if they have the nuts. I probably check any river, since a lead basically turns my hand into a bluff. On that board, I probably fold to any bet over 100, unless this guy gets bluffy on the river. Without the made flush, I might call more often, but I probably still don't call a shove.

Posted 10 months ago

bosko

Avatar for bosko

341 posts
Joined 05/2010

If you're tight, you've turned you're hand face up to most players will basic hand reading skills.



Really?

Posted 10 months ago

Buck_Neket

Avatar for Buck_Neket

171 posts
Joined 03/2011

Really?



A tight/solid live player flats a 7.5BB raise from the BB. Then check/raises a bunch on a really wet flop with all low cards and 2 draws. Kinda screams overpair to me. The line is too strong to be a great flopped hand (which would wait for the turn to pounce)

Posted 10 months ago

shuttle

Avatar for shuttle

3359 posts
Joined 11/2008

tbh I just 3bet here. I mean by all means you can flat if you have a good idea of how this guy plays and what his range is. But yeah what does "sold LAG reg" mean? How have you made this assessment? What do you know about this guy?

Posted 10 months ago

1a2a3a

Avatar for 1a2a3a

48 posts
Joined 06/2012

Flatting AA out of position vs a lag or any decent reg will only give you trouble imo.
He opens 15 im 3beting like 60+ then pot will be 120+ with 340 behind for an spr of 3.2 which makes the hand a lot easier to play.At least when he flops the set you goated him into a preflop mistake(not enough implied odds),honestly i used to flat aces in weird spots as well but eventually i stopped slowplaying them(and anything below top boat for matter).
You never know it he has kings and willing to stack off 200 bb deep.If you can get all the money in preflop you should always do it.I still might flat aces preflop in position if i get 3bet when i know all the money are going in anyways and the player is thinking enough to fold to a 4bet or has a wide 3bet range.

Posted 10 months ago

chad_daniels

Avatar for chad_daniels

26 posts
Joined 04/2010

Flatting AA out of position vs a lag or any decent reg will only give you trouble imo.
He opens 15 im 3beting like 60+ then pot will be 120+ with 340 behind for an spr of 3.2 which makes the hand a lot easier to play.At least when he flops the set you goated him into a preflop mistake(not enough implied odds),.



This was my thought. You're making things really hard on yourself by flatting and playing this hand OOP when you can just offer improper odds to villain pre-flop. Even if you're turning your hand face up, you can still make a raise to 55+ and play this hand out pretty easily. Any sets that call you and are playing fit or fold are making a fundamental mistake at that point and can't be profitable in the long run.

Posted 10 months ago

ejplecht

Avatar for ejplecht

614 posts
Joined 01/2010

Just never understand the logic of 'not 3betting pre cause it looks super strong', but suddenly c/raising the flop... Unless you know that villain is playing opposites styles pre and post this line doesn't make sense to often.
+if you think villain folds so often, you should have a huge 3bet bluffing history vs him.
++who makes it 7.5bb and folds to a 3bet?

Posted 10 months ago

josherer

Avatar for josherer

27 posts
Joined 08/2012

Just never understand the logic of 'not 3betting pre cause it looks super strong', but suddenly c/raising the flop... Unless you know that villain is playing opposites styles pre and post this line doesn't make sense to often.
+if you think villain folds so often, you should have a huge 3bet bluffing history vs him.
++who makes it 7.5bb and folds to a 3bet?



I agree with all the people who say I should three-bet, if nothing else because it makes the hand a lot easier to play oop postflop. I already mentioned it was because I had been playing a fair bit of HU online of late where flatting AA is extremely standard in a lot of spots and this messed with my auto-pilot response in the hand.
+ I do
++ I would. In my 1/2 game it's very common for a raiser to open for 15. I could quite easily open for 15 and in late position with a hand like AJs (for value) and fold to a bigish 3bet from the BB.

Posted 10 months ago

josherer

Avatar for josherer

27 posts
Joined 08/2012

(fwiw I followed the auto-pilot response and acted preflop before really thinking the over my best action because I didn't wanna take ages and give anything away)

Posted 10 months ago

UU!I.I.4AAUU35

Avatar for UU!I.I.4AAUU35

1202 posts
Joined 07/2010

If you are ever 3 betting in this spot as a bluff then you have to 3 bet aces period.

Posted 10 months ago

undercover brotha

Avatar for undercover brotha

212 posts
Joined 08/2012

chc 3 times imo (unless the river's a 4flush)

but I don't have much live experience but from what I've heard live regs seem weak tight otr
so you might be able to lead huge on a 4flush or checkraise (if he thinly vbets which might not be the case)

Posted 10 months ago

euEra

Avatar for euEra

682 posts
Joined 08/2010

3 bet pre for sure i never understand why people find ways to flat AA pre flop. If it looks so strong to 3 bet in this spot does this mean you would 3 bet air some % of the time here? If so (you should) then you should certainly 3 bet AA.

3 bet pots are so much easier and straightforward to play and you know where you are a lot of the time, 3 betting AA pre will never ever be -EV and you will always make money this way.

On the turn i would x/c i feel villain can make more mistakes this way. I would barrell the turn with my bluffs and flushes but i think we can get more value from worse hands by checking.

If he checks behind i would bet like half pot on the river.

Posted 10 months ago

josherer

Avatar for josherer

27 posts
Joined 08/2012

If you are ever 3 betting in this spot as a bluff then you have to 3 bet aces period.



It's live the players don't adjust enough to make balancing more profitable than playing exploitably.

Posted 10 months ago

NinaWilliams

Avatar for NinaWilliams

824 posts
Joined 12/2007

If you are ever 3 betting in this spot as a bluff then you have to 3 bet aces period.



this isn't true at all. In fact, its likely the opposite.

Posted 10 months ago

NinaWilliams

Avatar for NinaWilliams

824 posts
Joined 12/2007

3 bet pre for sure i never understand why people find ways to flat AA pre flop. If it looks so strong to 3 bet in this spot does this mean you would 3 bet air some % of the time here? If so (you should) then you should certainly 3 bet AA.

3 bet pots are so much easier and straightforward to play and you know where you are a lot of the time, 3 betting AA pre will never ever be -EV and you will always make money this way.

On the turn i would x/c i feel villain can make more mistakes this way. I would barrell the turn with my bluffs and flushes but i think we can get more value from worse hands by checking.

If he checks behind i would bet like half pot on the river.



Flatting AA will never be -ev either unless you do something ridiculous like fold every time you don't flop top set.

Making the hand easier to play isn't necessarily a good argument for doing things.

I can actually see arguments for where 3 betting makes the hand harder to play. For example if he flats a semi connected middle card flop, what's our turn plan assuming he's a good hand reader?

Posted 10 months ago




HomePoker ForumsLive Poker → AA in the BB