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Contra

Avatar for Contra

64 posts
Joined 03/2011

Environment:
A very loose and active live $5/10 game that goes to SD a lot. 3 strong live recreational players (that play these stakes about 100 hours a month) and 4 wealthy fish. 72 is mandatory with a payout of $50 per player. It is mid way through the game (no end of game Hail Mary's to get unstuck). I have a solid image, but the other players know I am aggressive and capable of almost anything, even a moment of spew, lol.

I limp UTG w KJo
I rarely open L, I am most often folding this hand as it is to weak to battle a large pot in this multi-way enviro OOP. I will LF pre a bit and LC or LR every now and then. In this environment there are very large implied odds post so getting to see a flop has value. You can easily build a pot post.

 I am followed by all the players at the table.

Start the hand with $4200

Flop is KClub JClub 4Heart

I B $75 when X to me.
UTG+1 (a strong solid player has me covered) C 
Seat 4  F
Seat 5 R to $390 total by an aggro business man starts with $1350

4 players Fold around to me

I C $215 more with the hopes that UTG+1 will raise to iso, or that I can lead the turn and extract value from UTG+1 before Seat 5 sticks it in which is inevitable after he raises.

UTG+1 R to $690 ($300 more)
Seat 5 R AI to 1340 ($650 more, $950 more to me)

Pot should be $2500 and I should have $3800 behind the line right now.

What does my range appear to be at this moment?
What do my opponents have?
How do I extract value with a dry side? What is my play?

Posted 11 months ago

Big Owl

Avatar for Big Owl

270 posts
Joined 02/2008

The most important thing I suppose is how willing you think each of these guys is to get in with a draw.
There's only 1 set that makes sense as I don't see them limping with JJ KK. There's obviously a ton of flush draws and combo straight and flush draws and also smaller 2 pair hands like K4s that would limp along. I think I call here and bet any non club turn. If I felt really strong about UTG1 calling a shove with AcXc I might do it. I think the only draw we're behind is 10cQc. As a side note I feel if he is a good player he probably doesn't flat 44 on this wet of a flop, so I really push his range more to a draw.

Posted 11 months ago

spewtastic

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34 posts
Joined 01/2012

If I'm UTG+1, your range looks like a draw when you flat the $215.

You say that UTG+1 is a "strong, solid player." I'm not exactly sure what that read means, but here are some things to consider within that read:

1) would he isolate with a draw here?
2) would he overlimp all or some of AA/KK/JJ/AK/KQ/KJ pre?
3) would he flat your flop bet with a set?
4) if he has one pair type hands in his range, will he continue with them on turn if a scare card hits (flush card, str8 card)?

Posted 11 months ago

Contra

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64 posts
Joined 03/2011

1) would he isolate with a draw here?
2) would he overlimp all or some of AA/KK/JJ/AK/KQ/KJ pre?
3) would he flat your flop bet with a set?
4) if he has one pair type hands in his range, will he continue with them on turn if a scare card hits (flush card, str8 card)?



1) I do not think he will isolate w a draw hear. Seat5 is so apt to put money in the pot that his R to $690 has to be for value. I think this is the pivotal point in the hand. Does he view AcTc or QcTc as so valuable that he is willing to get it in vs seat 5 I do not know.
2) he is never over limping anything better than KQ. KQ an KJ I am not sure. He rarely if never has K4, J4 in this position, LP yes, EP....
3) I do not know the answer to this one.
4) I am not sure, I do not believe so. If I flat the $1300 and continue to put money into a dry side pot after a str8 or Flush comes he has to know 1 pair is no good.

That is the difficult part of this hand, how do I get value from the dry side? He may call the turn bet / shove / XR if I flat the $1300 on account of the size of the pot. Do I want to R the $1300 and just fold out his equity now knowing he is unlikely to put any more money in unless he out draws me? (similar to if a villain has 88 vs your KQ on a KQX board, you can X but he is never putting money in unless he hits his set so you may as well B and fold his small equity.) Another concern is if I flat and the draws come, UTG+1 may successfully turn his hand into a bluff and fold me out (not beyond his skill level, rare but not impossible).

Posted 11 months ago

spewtastic

Avatar for spewtastic

34 posts
Joined 01/2012

1) I do not think he will isolate w a draw hear. Seat5 is so apt to put money in the pot that his R to $690 has to be for value. I think this is the pivotal point in the hand. Does he view AcTc or QcTc as so valuable that he is willing to get it in vs seat 5 I do not know.
2) he is never over limping anything better than KQ. KQ an KJ I am not sure. He rarely if never has K4, J4 in this position, LP yes, EP....
3) I do not know the answer to this one.
4) I am not sure, I do not believe so. If I flat the $1300 and continue to put money into a dry side pot after a str8 or Flush comes he has to know 1 pair is no good.

That is the difficult part of this hand, how do I get value from the dry side? He may call the turn bet / shove / XR if I flat the $1300 on account of the size of the pot. Do I want to R the $1300 and just fold out his equity now knowing he is unlikely to put any more money in unless he out draws me? (similar to if a villain has 88 vs your KQ on a KQX board, you can X but he is never putting money in unless he hits his set so you may as well B and fold his small equity.) Another concern is if I flat and the draws come, UTG+1 may successfully turn his hand into a bluff and fold me out (not beyond his skill level, rare but not impossible).



If he really is a strong, thinking player, then he shouldn't be re-raising with a draw here, even a combo draw. Why would he want to drive your money out of the pot? (unless he has a small draw and is trying to get you off of what he thinks is a bigger draw? but, we're likely out-leveling ourselves at this point).

If you're looking to get value from his range, and you're concerned about him playing perfectly on future streets (bluffing you off your hand when scare cards hit, or only putting in more money if he improves to a hand that beats you) then you just shove now.

Posted 11 months ago

micsquab

Avatar for micsquab

744 posts
Joined 09/2010

This has me stumped. UTG +1 action otf is strange to me. What does he call with pre and calls with otf with so many players left to act behind him? Then min raises. Either a monster draw or 44?

Posted 11 months ago




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