Live Poker Poker Forums

This is kind of a continuation to SJ's original post on cbetting. All of these boards are from hands I've played this weekend.

Lately I've actually cut back on cbetting a little bit (on really nasty flops), and (maybe being results oriented a bit) have thanked myself for it.

So what do you guys do in these scenarios:

red AA UTG
Raise to 18, 5 callers

Board 8,5,8

red JJ UTG
raise to 18, 2 callers, 1 blind calls

Board
4,5,6

Black AA on the button, 3 bet EP raise
EP calls, MP calls.

Board:
Q,10,8

1. cbetting 40 here with the intention of shutting down on a bad turn card. Unless the villains are able to hand read, I'm expecting a lot of the action to be honest from here on.

2. cbetting 22, to generate FE before barreling most turns

3. no clue at all. I would probably check back because I'm going to feel showdown bound with this part of my range. Then cbet a safe turn. I think it's bad, but I see the potential to get lost in this hand.

1. That's a great board to cbet. The problem isn't the board - it's the number of callers. No matter the board, you end up 6 ways /w AA and you're just never that strong against everyone combined. Still a value cbet spot, though, just be ready to dump the hand if things get out of control.

2. Still a board I'm willing to bet/fold. Really draw heavy, so you need to be paying attention to how these villains have been playing draws. Generally, people are mostly passive with all but the hugest draw. I'll see people c/c with hands like A8 here thinking "I just need a 7" all day. I think this is another easy bet/fold spot against most villains (read dependent on how they play draws).

3. Still bet/folding this board for value. Soooo many pair+draw, FD, GS draws out there that we're ahead of. This is a 3bet pot, so you should have pumped the 3bet up to a pretty good size, which means callers shouldn't have J9 here almost ever. You're mostly worried about QQ/TT/88 but there's plenty of value from AQ/KQ/JQ/JK/FD's for a bet and re-evaluate the turn.

EDIT: Overall, I think you may be leaving money on the table and should be more willing to value bet/fold on scary boards. Feels like a bit of MUTB syndrome.

I'm glad that Luke posts his thoughts so I don't have to type mine.

3. Still bet/folding this board for value. Soooo many pair+draw, FD, GS draws out there that we're ahead of. This is a 3bet pot, so you should have pumped the 3bet up to a pretty good size, which means callers shouldn't have J9 here almost ever. You're mostly worried about QQ/TT/88 but there's plenty of value from AQ/KQ/JQ/JK/FD's for a bet and re-evaluate the turn.

My problem with this hand is what to do when opponents misinterpret their weaker holdings as super strong, and play according? I'm not entirely sure you gain enough the times you're right and hold up, vs the times you're wrong, or fold incorrectly because the action.

I purposely left out my actions and thoughts because I just wanted to purely discuss board textures.
In hands 1 and 2 we're out of position against close to half the table.

One of the reasons I wanted to do this, was because analyzing where I'm losing money, is actually cbetting bad boards multiway.

1) I did cbet 45, and got called in all 5 spots!

The turn paired the 5, and I checked. The guy to my immediate left bet 35, and got one fold. At this point there's over 500 in the pot, and everyone still involved in the hand has 200+ behind. I was closing the action, so it was an easy call.

Can't stove this hand, it just doesn't work.

2)Blind checked, I checked, MP bet, LP raised.
Stoving this hand against 3 players with pairs, broadways, and suiteds we have 3% equity.

3) I checked it back (not because I was afraid of the board texture), but because the table had seen me 3bet AK not too long ago. The shortstack shoved an offsuit 5 turn, I called getting 2:1 and he had a queen. When I checked it back I think that he thought I had AK. Here not cbetting got me paid off.

I'm glad that Luke posts his thoughts so I don't have to type mine.

Mostly my fault for getting coaching from you.

1) I did cbet 45, and got called in all 5 spots!

That's nuts. I'm playing it the same, calling turn and evaluating river.

2)Blind checked, I checked, MP bet, LP raised.
Stoving this hand against 3 players with pairs, broadways, and suiteds we have 3% equity.

I'm not saying you stoved this wrong, but that seems crazy low. Can you show the ranges you gave? I think (not sure) this may be a good case for betting to thin the field and pick up fold equity when multiway. Get two people to fold and have the third person with that same wide {pairs, draws, gutshots, FD, etc.} range and you're doing so much better. I could be totally wrong here, though.

3) I checked it back (not because I was afraid of the board texture), but because the table had seen me 3bet AK not too long ago. The shortstack shoved an offsuit 5 turn, I called getting 2:1 and he had a queen. When I checked it back I think that he thought I had AK. Here not cbetting got me paid off.

Totally fine, you induced a mistake from a shortstacker using your image. That said, we didn't have any of that info originally . I think, without any info/reads/table image, that cbetting in this spot is still the most +EV move.

I think all of these board textures are good for about 1/2 pot cbets, maybe a little less than that in hand 2 and a bit more in hand 3.