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First time I have played with villian. Seems like a better then average TAG. Ignore the preflop leak, was 1000 deep with the opener and with my long history vs him, he is max implied odds.

In straddle ($5) with 34. 3 limpers, Bad Tag goes to 25, good tag (SB) calls, I call, 3 limpers call.

Flop: 338 ($125)

I snap bet $25, and then make a comment about "oh wow this pot was much bigger than I thought" (FWIW I have no reputation of an angle shooter). I get called by limper, bad tag folds, good tag calls.

Turn: 2 ($200)

villian checks, I tank bet $100, limper folds, villian snap CiB. He has another 350 behind, so if I call, it will be 600 pot and him shoving 350 on the river.

I do not expect this to be a semi-bluff, as he would surely of just jammed then to maximize his FE (or called). IMO this is 99-JJ, pure bluff or I am crushed. With my reads on him, he isnt calling 25 preflop OOP with 4 guys behind him with many hands. The big question for me is: With how bad I played the hand, and how weak I could be perceived, do you think decent players with CiB bluff often enough here?

why would you actually bet out 20 % pot? c/c, c/r or donk a reasonable amount. Also I am quite sure villain is not c/r ing turn here with an overpair to then jam river for value. If you actually think he might have 99 or TT, then I would flat turn, since he may give something away on the river. Other than that it is quite a weird spot, you are pretty much only beat by 88, MAYBE 1 combo of A3s, but what should he bluff with? He cant possibly have a straight draw having overcalled the flop, and there is no FD on the board. Is he turning a pair into a bluff?

villian checks, I tank bet $100, limper folds, villian snap CiB. He has another 350 behind, so if I call, it will be 600 pot and him shoving 350 on the river.

I do not expect this to be a semi-bluff, as he would surely of just jammed then to maximize his FE (or called). IMO this is 99-JJ, pure bluff or I am crushed. With my reads on him, he isnt calling 25 preflop OOP with 4 guys behind him with many hands. The big question for me is: With how bad I played the hand, and how weak I could be perceived, do you think decent players with CiB bluff often enough here?

If your read of [88-JJ + bluffs] is accurate, AND you think he's shoving all that range on river after you call, then this is easy call/call.

88 - 3 combos
99 - 6 combos
TT - 6 combos
JJ - 6 combos
bluff - unknown, but it adds more combos that you beat

With your read, you are at least 18:3 (6:1) ahead at the river when he shoves, more if he really does have bluffs in his range. EZ GAME.

This is the first time you've played with this guy? You may be putting too much into the "Good Tag" read. This guy could play looser than you think, or more passive than you think.

So, what if your read is wrong? What if he is looser than you think and he has A3s in his range?

88 - 3 combos
99 - 6 combos
TT - 6 combos
JJ - 6 combos
A3s - 2 combos

If he is in fact shoving all these hands on the river, then you are 18:5 ahead. Again, EZ GAME.

What if he is more passive than you think? As you say in another thread, it is not out of the question for players to show up with AA, KK, QQ here.

Bah I messed up on the board, there was a flush draw on the flop.

Anyways, I folded face up and the whole table went bananas, and he came up to me later at the cage and told me he did infact have 88833. At the time it seemed like an okay fold versus this guy, but I needed the opinions of some people besides the live regulars at my casino.

The reason I lead 1/6th pot was because of the original raiser. I have tones of history with him and have never done anything like this versus him, and I am so expected him to spaz bet 200+ with AK+ and snap it off 1K deep. He is a really stubborn tag who would surely put in his stack here. Then again, I guess if he did have a 5% hand, he probably would have went more than 25 with 3 strat limpers.

As well, I find flops like this get checked through so many times, but if someone makes a gay bet, they get raised by every single possible pair.

Bah I messed up on the board, there was a flush draw on the flop.

Anyways, I folded face up and the whole table went bananas, and he came up to me later at the cage and told me he did infact have 88833. At the time it seemed like an okay fold versus this guy, but I needed the opinions of some people besides the live regulars at my casino.

yeah, I was kinda trying to imply this in my post... I'm not so sure about your read of the 88-JJ range. I mean, those guys do show up at the tables that will play those hands this way... but they are the exception, not the norm.

Bah I messed up on the board, there was a flush draw on the flop.

Anyways, I folded face up and the whole table went bananas, and he came up to me later at the cage and told me he did infact have 88833. At the time it seemed like an okay fold versus this guy, but I needed the opinions of some people besides the live regulars at my casino.

If you're trying to play a lower-variance style of play, I guess this fold is ok. It's just so hard to put him on a decent range that has you crushed, esp if you can include 99-JJ. I usually have a little bit of a read on the player's competency before I'm making a call like this.

However, when you show that you folded on that board, I htin you have to be willing to call down a little lighter. I still think this is a call though, but the more I think about the hand, it's hard to imagine someone taking this line w/ 99.

In the long run, I surely hero call >>>> hero fold in this game, as you barely ever see the fish making thin value bets , or raising draws, and you end up in so many situations where you can bloat a wet board, and c/call when everything misses.

I show this because I rarely would fold here, and already do call down lighter then average. Does this make sense? I obviously never show when I do hero call and I am wrong, as I do not want to give these players incentive to start thin value betting me, which would throw off my game in 1-2 live more then any other play.

Anyone else think like this?

I show this because I rarely would fold here, and already do call down lighter then average. Does this make sense? I obviously never show when I do hero call and I am wrong, as I do not want to give these players incentive to start thin value betting me, which would throw off my game in 1-2 live more then any other play.

Anyone else think like this?[/quote]

Yes, this makes sense. Especially the last part. Keeping their range polarized makes your decisions way easier on the river.