Live Poker Poker Forums

This is probably one of my first posts here, but I'm starting to get back into the swing of things, and hoping to improve my game. Hopefully I'll be able to contribute my thoughts on some of your hands as well.

Hand at Parx Casino (Phila PA) 1/2 300 cap NL game.

Effective stacks around $180 (90bb)

Read on Villain - I've been playing with him for about 2 1/2 hours, seemed pretty good, commented on the way I played a hand w/ a flop set to try and get the value out of an old nit who clearly had PP on monotone board with a pretty good analysis of the hand, and at one point we got down to 5-handed he attacked the blinds pretty aggressively (although he made it $17 when he raised). We're back to Full Ring at this game, or maybe 8 handed

Villain in UTG+1 raises to $9, two in the field call, I call in the bb w/ J T

Flop ($36) - QJJr

I bet $22 - Villain calls, everyone else folds

Turn ($80) - 6x

I bet $45, Villain calls

River 2x ($170)

I bet $60, Villain shoves for $42 more... Hero??

I think the river isn't so much the big question here, but more so my line the entire hand, and my bet-sizing on all streets. I'm open for critique on all.

You bet into some people i think? In that case your range is pretty strong on the flop, so when he calls he probably has a draw like KT, a higher Jx, AA,KK, AQ and QQ. A range your doing so so against.

On the turn there is still value in overpairs and KT etc. so i think betting is fine.

On the river i wont bet because the draws missed and there are no hands that you can get value from.
If you check he is not going to bet AA,KK. Maybe he will bet a missed draw, but i don't think it is a good spot for him to bluff in general against your range. So then if he is valuebetting he never does it with worse. Therefore you can make an argument in folding. But there are so little Jx combos that if he is bluffing a hand like KT some of the time, you probably have the odds to call.

I don't get the flop donk. Your all but tell him you have a jack and he is still betting into you. I think as played you have to call now.

Yeah not sure about the donk bet. It's hard for him to put you anything other than trips or better at this point, so you basically have the bottom of your range which is not a good spot to be going for value.

Given the short effective stacks (SPR will be about 5 on the flop) and being out of position, your preflop call is actually very marginal and may not be profitable.

Especially if you think this guy is competent and not going to punt off his whole stack with AA or KK here, then what are you accomplishing by betting out. If you *are* going to lead out, I would suggest betting $55 on the turn and then jamming on the river. If you think AA/KK/AQ/(KQ?) are going to call it off for the bet sizing you made, they'll also call it off for your whole (not much bigger) effective stack.

I am not really sure you had a fully developed plan for this hand, nor does it appear that you worked through your opponents' range and used that to inform your play.

I don't get the flop donk. Your all but tell him you have a jack and he is still betting into you. I think as played you have to call now.

This makes no sense.

Given the short effective stacks (SPR will be about 5 on the flop) and being out of position, your preflop call is actually very marginal and may not be profitable.

Especially if you think this guy is competent and not going to punt off his whole stack with AA or KK here, then what are you accomplishing by betting out. If you *are* going to lead out, I would suggest betting $55 on the turn and then jamming on the river. If you think AA/KK/AQ/(KQ?) are going to call it off for the bet sizing you made, they'll also call it off for your whole (not much bigger) effective stack.

I am not really sure you had a fully developed plan for this hand, nor does it appear that you worked through your opponents' range and used that to inform your play.

Thanks for all the feedback -

I was being liberal w/ my call. I usually try to follow the 10x raise w/ pp, 20x raise with suited connectors. I felt like calling 7more (so following the 20x rule we would only hve to be 140 deep here, but I agree we would want more for being OOP) wasn't that bad out of the blinds, especially with 2 people already calling and I'm closing the action. Is it the SPR that makes this a marginal call? I think I am missing something, I've been ok w/ making this kind of call in this situation for just that reason. My reasoning is as follows:

At the start of the hand, I had about 240, I can't remember the stack sizes in the field, but I think one had about the same, other had less. I made effective stacks this way bc the way the hand played, villan’s stack was the only one that was relevant. I felt like calling here, ending the action, I could see a flop, decently cheaply, and if I smash the flop, there’s a good chance (w/ shallow SPR) that I’m getting it in pretty easily here. So, in my mind, I call 7, ending the action, if I whiff, easy c/f, if I hit a marginal hand, I’m playing it very warily OOP, folding pretty easily to any real pressure. If I hit it hard, then I can try and get my remaining 240ish in the middle, so 7 to win 240 or at least 180, didn’t seem so bad. I think this is definitely a topic I would be very interested in hearing what others thought about.
On the flop play, I’m always a proponent of betting for value as thinly as possible in live. People call w/ much more inferior hands. However, in looking back at the flop texture, I agree that my lead into three others is REALLY strong. I just feel like I never balance my c/r with draws that when I do it, it’s so transparent to a huge hand that it’s hard to get paid off. I guess the only really hand I’m getting value from is KT, perhaps KK, AA, and weaker Jx hands, but I don’t know how many would show up given the preflop action.
You’re right. I did have a general plan, but didn’t adapt it to the board texture, hand ranges for my villains. If I should have called the preflop raise to begin with, which seems to be in contention, do you guys think c/r or c/c is a better line here? I’m assuming c/c?