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The main villain in this hand is incredibly LAGgy. According to a friend at the table, this guy double barrels a lot. In addition, in 2 previous pots, I watched him call down 2 streets with bottom pair, hit second pair and check/call, and 3bet a straddle from the SB w/ ATs and screwplay a TTx flop and A turn.

This is the hand immediately after the ATs hand.

9 handed 2/5 NL

Seat1: 120bb (V3)
Seat2: 50bb
Seat3: 75bb
Seat4: 220bb (V2)
Seat5 (BT): 130bb (V1)
Seat6 (SB): 100bb (Hero)
Seat7: 180bb
Seat8: 30bb
Seat9: 45bb

Hero is Dealt 8h 8d

Seat1 calls 1bb
Seat2 calls 1bb
Seat4 calls 1bb
Seat5(BT) raises to 7bb
Seat6(SB) calls 6.5bb
Seat1 calls 6bb
Seat2 folds
Seat4 calls 6bb

* My reason for calling here is that I often have the best hand, but a marginal spot. If I 3bet, it will never take down the pot, and will eliminate any chance I have of extracting value from a guy that double barrels so often. I'm not worried about someone else raising because of the dynamics of the table.

Flop 9s 3s 6h (POT: 29bb)

Hero(88) checks,
Seat1 checks
Seat4 checks
Seat5 bets 22bb

Hero calls 22bb (approx. 71bb left)
Seat1 folds
Seat4 folds

* I elect to check/call here because I'm expecting the villain to cbet a flop this dry 100%. I am not worried about the other 2 players because this board only hits the very bottom part of their ranges (9Ts). If something crazy happened in the middle, I have no problem folding.

Turn 3c

Hero checks
Seat5 bets 71bb

Second Decision Point: Hero ???????

Thoughts on the hand.
Thanks.

What do you mean by screwplay?

What do you mean by screwplay?

Screwplays as I define them are odd action lines with value hands.

He took a 3bet (Pre), check (Flop), check/call (Turn), lead pot (River) Line.

Hero should call! Putting the Vi on a 20% range from the button the hero has a 65% equity and is getting slightly more than 2:1 to call.

Really crappy spot. From your reads I agree this is a call. His nuts line seems to be to slow play so this most likely is just him pushing you off your hand with maybe a draw. Dont know if I could stick the money in in-game but from the stands I call. The only info we don't have is whether the guy is good or fishy. If he is a laggy and decent player that is capable of trying to level you into a call it changes things.

Really crappy spot. From your reads I agree this is a call. His nuts line seems to be to slow play so this most likely is just him pushing you off your hand with maybe a draw. Dont know if I could stick the money in in-game but from the stands I call. The only info we don't have is whether the guy is good or fishy. If he is a laggy and decent player that is capable of trying to level you into a call it changes things.

There isn't enough history for a leveling war. The only thing that could freeze a thinking player is that I tanked for a minute before flatting the flop (which I think gets someone in the middle off a 9x hand).

not talking about a leveling war, just that if he is a good lag then he is using his image to get a hero call out of you. If he is just a spot at the table he's probably just trying to get a fold.

bump

Well, given your read that he doubl barrels a lot, I think you should call. In a 4way spot oop, I think you should basically fold to his flop bet, unless you are positive that you can call the turn shove on at least half the deck, and the 3 is one of the absolute best cards for you, only an 8 or a 9 would be bettter.

I think a lot of ppl will not shove a 9 here for that much, especially without A or K kicker, because they fear folding out everything worth, that polarizes him to TT+, 99, 66, 33 and (semi-) bluffs. I did not do a stove, but given your close to 2:1 pot odds I am pretty sure you can call even if he never shoves two bare overs, therefore only bluffs with his spade draws. If he ever jams two bare overs, it becomes even better.

What I would have to say is do you trust your friend's observations? I have some friends that play live as well.While I do get some credit when they say something like "soandso is pretty loose", I still rely on my own reads.

The 2 previous hands that YOU witnessed at the table aren't double barrels.

With that being said I like the PF decision. There's no reason to turn an implied odds hand like that into a bluff.

From what you posted there's 150 (35*4+5+5BB) in the pot on the flop (but you said 37bb, which is 185). It doesn't really change your odds too much, but it moves him to closer to a PSB.

I actually don't like a call here, you're OOP, it's more then 25% of your stack, and there's a ton of cards you don't want to see, that can come.

From what you posted there's 150 (35*4+5+5BB) in the pot on the flop (but you said 37bb, which is 185). It doesn't really change your odds too much, but it moves him to closer to a PSB.

I actually don't like a call here, you're OOP, it's more then 25% of your stack, and there's a ton of cards you don't want to see, that can come.

Thanks, I edited the original post to reflect the correct pot size (29bb)

As to the flop call, I thought this was pretty standard. I know that half the deck will turn my hand into a c/f on the turn, but should I be willing to fold to a cbet on such a dry flop?

Do you fold because it's too thin? or because it's wrong?

Thanks, I edited the original post to reflect the correct pot size (29bb)

As to the flop call, I thought this was pretty standard. I know that half the deck will turn my hand into a c/f on the turn, but should I be willing to fold to a cbet on such a dry flop?

Do you fold because it's too thin? or because it's wrong?

Well with a mid sized PP like 8s, part of the problem is trying to figure out if you're actually good. If he's opening pretty wide (which it looks like he probably is) then yeah you're probably ahead. BUT you still have to fade a lot cards AND you're looking at 2 bets at least (if he's barreling a lot)

Additionally it is possible that he can have a pair here.There's more pairs that beat you, then you're ahead of.

I just with with the combination of factors at play here (being OOP, having a vulnerable hand, large portion of your stack, and facing more bets) makes it a fold.

According to a friend at the table, this guy double barrels a lot.

not to go off on too much of a tangent but i find this is somewhat unethical.


as for the hand:

are is kind of a weird and not-so-great spot 100bb deep oop but i guess it's fine, you could do something like 3b/call as well.

i think flop is a fold with 2 people left to act and turn is a call given your reads.

not to go off on too much of a tangent but i find this is somewhat unethical.

How so?

Scouting reports (think gossip) have never struck me as particularly unethical, but I'm willing to listen to a different viewpoint