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For those of you who were/are winning online poker players who also have live experience, what are the biggest leaks you see or would expect to see from someone transitioning to live from online?

I'm currently suffering a ~$1750 downswing, and though I have lost five 300bb pots with 80%+ equity which is obviously a huge part of this downswing, I'm now nervous that I maybe be bleeding money in other areas that I haven't been able to identify.

So if you guys can throw some common leaks out there I think it might help me to improve my game and pull out of this downswing faster.

thanks

Not a winning online player but its what I first started playing. I think playing too many hands is the first adjustment to be made. Secound biggest problem I had was being card dead for hours and dealing with complacent tilt. I got so sick of folding trash hands then get AQos and treat it like the nuts and get stacked on an A high board.

Not a winning online player but its what I first started playing. I think playing too many hands is the first adjustment to be made. Secound biggest problem I had was being card dead for hours and dealing with complacent tilt. I got so sick of folding trash hands then get AQos and treat it like the nuts and get stacked on an A high board.

yeah, I mean I don't play too many hands for sure, and in fact I think that not loosening up and limping some hands in super deep stacked games might even be a leak for transitioning online players.

I also don't really get tilted from stupid things like being card dead or bored. Losing a few huge pots in a row where I was way ahead will do it for sure, but I'm fairly good at quitting to get something to eat or just leaving when that happens.

man i played a live session last week at 2/3...it was seriously like playing .01/.02... there is a tonne of money out there. personally I dont have tonnes of experience playing live, I'm primarily online at 100/200nl.

I guess it depends on the stakes ur playing but if ur stuck 1750 i'm guessing it would be similar to 2/3ish. from my session i guess a general guide would be to:

a) dont expect any fold equity on any street. at least 40% of the table will be willing do call down with 2nd or 3rd pair hoping to hit 2p. people call multiple streets with gutshots etc.

b) biggest surprise was the amount people are willing to call preflop. live players (even 'decent' ones at these stakes) will call off like 30% of their stack pre w/ shit like 68s because 'its a good hand to crack a monster', so dont be afraid to open to like 6/7x pre w/ hands that are going to flop a solid tp (KQ JK etc). people dont understand the concept of playing dominated hands so will call retarded stuff like 3 streets w/ tpnk. I guess it all comes back to the not folding thing...

the best adjustment would be to open bigger pre, inflate the pot, cbet with a range heavily weighted towards value hands, bluff small and infrequently and just valuetown the shit out of people.

if you have any more specific questions hit me up.

If you are getting two outed it doesnt matter those same dudes are going to chip you up sooner than later.

First post on the forums, im a break even online player but im definetly a big winner at live games.Atm 7+bb/hr with more that 30k hand sample, at some points i was running at 11-12bb/hr.
I play 2-5 and my points are:
-Raise bigger(x3 raises where i play get at least 6-7 callers) so i open for 5x + 1bb for every limper(even they are very loose i might even raise 2bb for every limpler)
-I know it sounds stupid but you have to limp with sc and litle pairs when you can, building a pot in live is easy when you hit but you have to get in cheap.
-Tone down the moves, i usually just have a high cbet% but i do it on boards without many draws so i can put my opponent on a specific range.When hh you can play more aggressive but in multiway pots i will play my 15 outs draw like a priced in gutshot.Especially vs shortstackers who are never folding top pair you have zero fold equity.
-Dont iso raise/3bet light.If they raise only with good hands they wont fold easily
Probably a lot more, i know how you feel i was on a 4-5k downsing and i start questioning my play.Those suckouts and your bankroll shrinking is terrible but eventually you gonna make a big win and get at least half on those lost back in just 1 session.

1a2a3a hit the nail on the head, but I'm pretty sure you know that.

What stakes are you at? 1/2? 1/3? or 2/5? If it's 1/2 or 1/3, that's a pretty sick downswing for the live games and would guess that you're probably leaking money somewhere. If it's 2/5, I wouldn't really question much and focus on playing your A game.

pretty useless info, I know. I hope you can get everything back on track.

1a2a3a hit the nail on the head, but I'm pretty sure you know that.

What stakes are you at? 1/2? 1/3? or 2/5? If it's 1/2 or 1/3, that's a pretty sick downswing for the live games and would guess that you're probably leaking money somewhere. If it's 2/5, I wouldn't really question much and focus on playing your A game.

pretty useless info, I know. I hope you can get everything back on track.

$1/2

First post on the forums, im a break even online player but im definetly a big winner at live games.Atm 7+bb/hr with more that 30k hand sample, at some points i was running at 11-12bb/hr.
I play 2-5 and my points are:
-Raise bigger(x3 raises where i play get at least 6-7 callers) so i open for 5x + 1bb for every limper(even they are very loose i might even raise 2bb for every limpler)
-I know it sounds stupid but you have to limp with sc and litle pairs when you can, building a pot in live is easy when you hit but you have to get in cheap.
-Tone down the moves, i usually just have a high cbet% but i do it on boards without many draws so i can put my opponent on a specific range.When hh you can play more aggressive but in multiway pots i will play my 15 outs draw like a priced in gutshot.Especially vs shortstackers who are never folding top pair you have zero fold equity.
-Dont iso raise/3bet light.If they raise only with good hands they wont fold easily
Probably a lot more, i know how you feel i was on a 4-5k downsing and i start questioning my play.Those suckouts and your bankroll shrinking is terrible but eventually you gonna make a big win and get at least half on those lost back in just 1 session.

cool, all good points for sure, I can tell you have a lot of live experience. However, I don't think I'm leaking in any of these areas - I have been raising much bigger than online, usually 7-9bb, depending on how many limpers. I also have been limping in cheap when the table is real deep and I have a hand that can flop the nuts. I've also learned that 3betting for thin value with hands like AJ is straight valueowning yourself (However, this means that unless villain only raises like AQ+TT+ preflop, then pure 3bet bluffing and putting out a big continuation bet can be profitable). Also playing mostly fit/fold in multiway pots unless the board is super perfect for cbetting and/or you have equity and deep enough stacks to barrel with.

Another thought about live that I'll just throw out there. Obviously paying attention and getting reads is always the top priority in any poker game, but one of the most important reads to watch like a hawk for and find out early is whether or not someone raises TP "to see where he's at" or for any other dumb reason. Live players don't really bluff all that often, and even the ones that do have a low frequency, so you'd be inclined to fold good 1pair hands when you get raised like it's so often correct to do vs. donks online. But live donks raise TP a TON more than online donks, and you can cost yourself a ton of money folding TPTK/TPGK/Overpairs because a fish raised you and you think "he's never bluffing." Instead of stacking someone for 100bb you lose you're 8bb preflop raise and 13bb or w/e cbet because you didn't pay attention to other hands to figure out how they think.

Obviously a ton of other reads are important, but in my short live experience this seems like one of the most common and most important donky plays that you need to watch carefully for.

One spot that I find myself in a lot live that I haven't online, is when there are a lot of limpers, pretty deep, and I'm in the small blind with something like K2s. I started another thread and was told that I should be completing here pretty wide - with pretty much anything that can flop the nuts. Okay, so I complete K2s and the board comes like KT5 with a flush draw or I have like T7s and the board is T63 with a FD. I seem to have been having a really hard time playing these marginal TP hands.

Limping is blasphemy online, but should be utilized well in live play. Stacks are generally deeper, thus the implied odds are better, not to mention that people can't fold hands in low stacks live games. This allows you to turn a small pot pre into a big one post without much issue.

Another point 1a touched on is light 3 betting. There's a reason we do this online - because people are opening too wide. However, live people generally limp most of their range and only raise their big hands. In this case, 3betting light makes absolutely no sense. That's not to say there aren't spots to do it, but you kind of have to go back and remember why all of our standard online plays became standard in the first place. It was a function of our opponent's styles. For live, we just need to tone everything down, valuebet well, fold when players represent strength, and be patient.

The biggest one I see is playing too many hands in early position and playing situations involving early position raisers pretty poorly. Its pretty understandable seeing as how these situations don't come up in 6 max.

Another one I see is players assuming villains are way more aggressive than they are. It's just harder to pull the trigger on big bluffs live.

cool, all good points for sure, I can tell you have a lot of live experience. However, I don't think I'm leaking in any of these areas - I have been raising much bigger than online, usually 7-9bb, depending on how many limpers. I also have been limping in cheap when the table is real deep and I have a hand that can flop the nuts. I've also learned that 3betting for thin value with hands like AJ is straight valueowning yourself (However, this means that unless villain only raises like AQ+TT+ preflop, then pure 3bet bluffing and putting out a big continuation bet can be profitable). Also playing mostly fit/fold in multiway pots unless the board is super perfect for cbetting and/or you have equity and deep enough stacks to barrel with.

Another thought about live that I'll just throw out there. Obviously paying attention and getting reads is always the top priority in any poker game, but one of the most important reads to watch like a hawk for and find out early is whether or not someone raises TP "to see where he's at" or for any other dumb reason. Live players don't really bluff all that often, and even the ones that do have a low frequency, so you'd be inclined to fold good 1pair hands when you get raised like it's so often correct to do vs. donks online. But live donks raise TP a TON more than online donks, and you can cost yourself a ton of money folding TPTK/TPGK/Overpairs because a fish raised you and you think "he's never bluffing." Instead of stacking someone for 100bb you lose you're 8bb preflop raise and 13bb or w/e cbet because you didn't pay attention to other hands to figure out how they think.

Obviously a ton of other reads are important, but in my short live experience this seems like one of the most common and most important donky plays that you need to watch carefully for.

Great point.

The biggest one I see is playing too many hands in early position and playing situations involving early position raisers pretty poorly. Its pretty understandable seeing as how these situations don't come up in 6 max.

So, what would you say is "too many hands in early position"? Like would opening KJo from the first 3 positions be too loose? KJs? AJo etc.? What's a solid opening range?

I tend to limp small pp's like 99 and lower especially from EP since:
A) it's really hard to get the pot heads up and even harder to get it heads up and in position, and cbetting multiway oop with 2 outs when you don't flop a set and are usually overcarded on the flop is just not a great spot.
B) it induces more players to come into the pot, making it more likely you can get value when you flop a set since it's more likely that someone flops some goofy 2pair or something.
C) if the pot does get raised, you are almost always getting sufficient odds to set mine.
D) Pretty much no one notices that you are only limping small pp's. Their projection bias makes them put all kinds of garbage like SC's, J5s, etc. into your range, if they are even trying to assign ranges at all.

Does anyone see any problem with this logic for limping this range from EP?

Bart hansen's poker with your pants on series talks preety much about anything you need to know about live poker.Watch the series play some poker, tilt less and you eventually gonna nail them.