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I'm obviously not a fan of making hero calls in 200nl live poker, but I'd like some feedback on this.

-Villain was a recreational player (drinking beer, had just ordered a jim bean and coke), and seemed rather aggro. He started the session off short stacked with somewhere under 50bb. In one hand, he had $42 (21bb) left, raise to $7 preflop with TT, got 3 or 4 callers. 1 check to him and he goes all in for $35 dollars on J64r.

-He had since rallied and now is sitting with about $300 to start the hand. I hadn't seen any other hands of note go to showdown, but he was raising preflop a ton and betting a lot post flop. So he was obv either on a HUGE heater or he was bluffing a lot.

The hand: he raises to 8 preflop, one caller, I make it 32 on the button with KcKh. He calls, other player folds. Flop is AQ8cc. He checks, I check. Turn is 7 bringing another FD. He bets $30 (little less than half pot), I call. River is 6 of clubs, making the flush and T9's straight. He goes all in for like 150 into like 120. What's your play?


-Now I don't go around calling off huge bets at live 1/2, but this spot seemed different. My thought process was 2 fold. I had seen him make a spewy play with the TT, and overall play very aggressively for about 40 minutes. My read was that he was likely bad aggro/bluffy (obv there's a chance he was just on a heater). Also, my player population read on live 1/2 is that when you 3bet preflop and check an A high board, the VAST MAJORITY of them put you on KK/QQ.

The combination of these two factors led me to believe he was bluffing enough for me to call - he has shown to be aggressive and if he puts me on KK a lot, he probably doesn't expect me to call such a huge bet, making me think he's unlikely to do this for value. And even if he would do this with a flush, I think it's very very unlikely he would do this with anything for thin value like AJ/AT or even AQ or T9. So in my mind his range is super polarized, and even with the nutted end of it he might not bet so huge (though obv there's a good chance that any recreational player just shoves all in with the nuts, I'm certainly aware of this). And if he can have some flushes, he can also call preflop with the other 3 suited combinations of each hand, therefore having a lot of combos he can bluff with. I also block some flush combos with my Kc.

Further, one might argue that on this board there aren't enough pure air hands for him to bluff with. But given the TT hand on Jxx, he seemed like the type that might not check for showdown value with a pair, especially if he puts me on KK a lot. That's also something I see a lot of live players do - turn showdown value into bluffs (though admittedly they mostly do it in stupid spots). So I thought that if he has like J8 or KQ or something, he's likely to turn it into a bluff a lot to try and get me to fold KK.

Appreciate any thoughts/comments.

against a guy who bets v weakness and has a super wide preflop range, we don't need to name logical air hands. T5dd will do, you know?

i'd probably just sigh on the flop and continue with a plan of basically never folding. it'd be great to have some more info on showdowns or even if he were more likely to bet v 'weakness,' but i am prob just putting my money in and hoping i get double back

I can't blame you if you called this, but make sure to think twice before doing so (I guess you did, otherwise you wouldn't have posted this thread).

Recently I heard about a thing that was named as "EV classification".

Your plan on the preflop was: sqz with KK and stack him either preflop or postflop.
However, flop brought you the card you didn't want to see, an A. I am sure one part of you was telling you: "He is so aggro etc. etc., I can't fold".
You should have a new plan for a hand now and stick to it.
a) You don't know him well enough, he can have everything, he is on huge heater, however - he is so bad you have a decent chance of stacking him later on
b) You know he is capable of doing weird shit, betting ultra thin (or rather just "clicking buttons") and is aggro when you show weakness -> close your eyes and x/c all the way.

Given the HUGE amount of hands that beat you (all draws, Ax, two pair, sets, etc.) and the fact that your hand is a kinda face up (like you said, ppl will put you on KK/QQ, more likely on KK) I'd prob give up on this river.

I agree with Stack hunter. I wouldn't call here because so many hands beat you, and people like this villain are going to be "clicking buttons" quite a bit. Lots of people think a top pair of aces is the unbeatable nuts, hence why they never fold them. When these people are aggressive though, not only will they never fold, but they just can't wait to put there stack in and hope that they're good.

Given the HUGE amount of hands that beat you (all draws, Ax, two pair, sets, etc.) and the fact that your hand is a kinda face up (like you said, ppl will put you on KK/QQ, more likely on KK) I'd prob give up on this river.

That's pretty much exactly why I called. My hand is face up - especially to live players, who put you on QQ+ whenever you 3bet (but they call preflop anyway) - so I wouldn't expect him to think I'm going to call an overbet (which is an absolutely huge bet in live poker) with KK. So I didn't expect him to do this with Ax, two pair, or sets. I think he might do it with the nuts just because it's the nuts, but there aren't that many flush combos. In short, there is a huge amount of hands that beat me *on the board,* but I didn't expect all of them to be *in his range*. But, given what I've observed of him so far, I did expect that he was capable of bluffing, and this is the perfect card for him to bluff on.

I agree with Stack hunter. I wouldn't call here because so many hands beat you, and people like this villain are going to be "clicking buttons" quite a bit. Lots of people think a top pair of aces is the unbeatable nuts, hence why they never fold them. When these people are aggressive though, not only will they never fold, but they just can't wait to put there stack in and hope that they're good.

The majority of 1/2 live players (at least where I play) do not think top pair of aces are the unbeatable nuts, and will actually lay them down quite a bit to enough pressure. It's a lot different than microstakes online. Live they tend to think of bets in terms of actual dollar amounts and the possibility of having to drive home broke rather than in terms of relative size to the pot. Online micros isn't that much money and if they lose it they just sign out of the client and watch porn.

The majority of 1/2 live players (at least where I play) do not think top pair of aces are the unbeatable nuts, and will actually lay them down quite a bit to enough pressure. It's a lot different than microstakes online. Live they tend to think of bets in terms of actual dollar amounts and the possibility of having to drive home broke rather than in terms of relative size to the pot. Online micros isn't that much money and if they lose it they just sign out of the client and watch porn.

This is why I'm usually folding here. Especially since the villian bought-in short when he first sat down. He's come to play poker, been able to build a stack and now probably isn't putting all his profits in the middle w/ a bluff.

This is why I'm usually folding here. Especially since the villian bought-in short when he first sat down. He's come to play poker, been able to build a stack and now probably isn't putting all his profits in the middle w/ a bluff.

no

the reads suggest this isn't the guy. the post you quoted isn't suggesting what you take from it. AGTG is giving an account of how most players play. the guy in this hand is not the type.

no

the reads suggest this isn't the guy. the post you quoted isn't suggesting what you take from it. AGTG is giving an account of how most players play. the guy in this hand is not the type.

The "real money" dollar amounts are really important imo. Overplaying TT w/ $35 left in his stack is a lot different than putting his last $150 into a $120 pot OTR. Also, OP said, "he was raising preflop a ton and betting a lot post flop. So he was obv either on a HUGE heater or he was bluffing a lot." I'm assuming these are smallish pots since they didn't get to showdown, so again, I think these are really different situations.
I don't think anyone has mentioned this, but if he really is "aggro drunk guy", I also think there's a chance that he's "bluffing" with the best hand. Some kind of random A that tries to rep the flush OTR.

no

the reads suggest this isn't the guy. the post you quoted isn't suggesting what you take from it. AGTG is giving an account of how most players play. the guy in this hand is not the type.

yeah I should have clarified that.

The "real money" dollar amounts are really important imo. Overplaying TT w/ $35 left in his stack is a lot different than putting his last $150 into a $120 pot OTR. Also, OP said, "he was raising preflop a ton and betting a lot post flop. So he was obv either on a HUGE heater or he was bluffing a lot." I'm assuming these are smallish pots since they didn't get to showdown, so again, I think these are really different situations.

There were a lot of small and medium pots, but probably like 2 of them were big and got to the river where his opponent tank/folded.

I don't think anyone has mentioned this, but if he really is "aggro drunk guy", I also think there's a chance that he's "bluffing" with the best hand. Some kind of random A that tries to rep the flush OTR.

I didn't mention him bluffing with Ax, but I did say that I think he can be bluffing with a made hand (KQ, 99 etc), which a surprising amount of live players do. And I think he's a lot more likely to be bluffing with a made hand worse than my hand than a better made hand, for obvious reasons.

And..........what did he have?

T9 of clubs

If he went all in on the river it would have been for 240ish if he started the hand with 300. Just clarifying.

He made straight flush??? LOL.