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JJ fishy line?

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josherer

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27 posts
Joined 08/2012

£1/2 9-handed.

Winning LAG (stack £300) who's recently sat at the table opens UTG for 10, UTG+1 calls, I make it 40 (stack £300) in the cutoff with JJ, folds to UTG who calls and UTG+1 folds. My image vs this player is quite aggro/loose/bluffy.

Flop AQx rainbow.

UTG checks. What's your play and why?

I think I made a mistake here as I decide to check behind. Basically I was thinking that AK/AQ are a huge part of his range to raise UTG and call a 3bet OOP and I have some showdown value if it ever got to the river.

Anyway as played the turn is a 2 and he fires 60. What's your play?

Posted 9 months ago

ThierryHenry

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1104 posts
Joined 12/2007

I really don't mind checking behind on the flop and just giving up. I'm not sure how wide villain calls a 3bet out of position, but I imagine his range is ahead of JJ on this board. I guess you could bet to get him off KK (assuming he didn't 4bet with it) and maybe some smaller PP's just to take down the pot now and prevent getting bluffed later in the hand.

I think if you did want to put more money in postflop you should just cbet the flop and be done. After checking back I am folding to the turn bet.

Posted 9 months ago

chad_daniels

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26 posts
Joined 04/2010

I think your check behind takes AK and AQ out of your range, so now you're really only repping 10's or 9's plus when your 3betting a UTG raiser. So you're either really strong, or really weak. If villain recognizes this, that means he has to put pressure on you to fold out any under pairs, and fold to any aggression from the sets in your range.

As played, I'm probably calling the turn and folding to a river bet, unless I know anything else about his turn/river play that you're not providing. Usually 1/2 players are willing to take one stab, but will give up in position. I might turn my hand into a bluff on the river if he checks.

His range is really similar though, I mean I doubt he has QQ+, so AK and AQ make a lot of sense.

Posted 9 months ago

josherer

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27 posts
Joined 08/2012

I think your check behind takes AK and AQ out of your range



What if my hand is AK... Do you always c-bet? This is a fairly common spot I'm trying to straighten out in my head. I assume the standard play with AK is to c-bet this flop, but I really can't see why this is a good play... All worse hands fold and all better hands c/r putting you in a sick spot. It seems like a pretty WBWA spot so giving a free card to 2-outers in the hope they'll bet turn to get me off 99/TT/JJ/KK/air would be way more profitable?

Further to that, if you buy into that logic, then checking behind (to a good opponent) doesn't take AK/AQ out of my range at all...?

Posted 9 months ago

euEra

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682 posts
Joined 08/2010

I check the flop i dont think its a mistake at all. Im not checking to give up or see a cheap showdown though im doing it to induce action on the turn that i wouldnt usualy have gotten. I would call the turn because by checking the flop we basically say we dont have an ace in our hand and its quite mandatory for him to bet pretty much his entire range.

Posted 9 months ago

HRPaperstacks

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2192 posts
Joined 07/2009

I really don't mind checking behind on the flop and just giving up. I'm not sure how wide villain calls a 3bet out of position, but I imagine his range is ahead of JJ on this board. I guess you could bet to get him off KK (assuming he didn't 4bet with it) and maybe some smaller PP's just to take down the pot now and prevent getting bluffed later in the hand.

I think if you did want to put more money in postflop you should just cbet the flop and be done. After checking back I am folding to the turn bet.


+1 all of this.

Yes, I cbet AK most of the time in that flop situation. Not betting for value is probably one of the biggest leaks in live 1/2. Sure, sometimes they all fold, but more often than not, every seat in the hand calls. I don't even mind when they guess my hand correctly and say it out loud*, as long as they still call with JT or KJ or whatever.

*Caller: Yeah, I know you got AK.
Me: Do I need AK to beat you?

Posted 9 months ago

josherer

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27 posts
Joined 08/2012

more often than not, every seat in the hand calls.

but it's a heads up pot and he's called a 3bet oop...

Posted 9 months ago

ThierryHenry

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1104 posts
Joined 12/2007

I don't think it's that bad to check back AK on this flop. I don't know how wide you're value 3betting range is vs this guy, but if AJ is somehow in that range (or AQ on a Axx flop) I think those would be better to check back. With AK you are possibly passing up getting value from weaker aces, so I'd rather use AK for value and the weaker aces as a bluff catcher.

However if we do decide to turn AK into a bluff catcher doesn't mean we should be turning JJ/TT/99 into a bluff catcher on this board without some crazy dynamic. I just don't think we'd be giving up much by just folding the turn after deciding not to cbet the flop.

Posted 9 months ago

NinaWilliams

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821 posts
Joined 12/2007

I'd check and give up. There's no value in betting and in live, you actually get to showdown with the best hand surprisingly often.

Posted 9 months ago




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